Amazon Sets Its Sights on the $88B Online Ad Market • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon Sets Its Sights on the $88B Online Ad Market

#61

Post by scarface74 » Mon, Sep 03, 2018, 10:42 PM UTC

lozaning wrote: post #21

scarface74 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I’m looking for headphones, wouldn’t it be more logical to start on Amazon? It’s not like Amazon is a site that people haven’t heard of. It’s the 4th most trafficked site in the US.

Personally, Amazon is where I go to check prices after I've decided what it is I'm buying. I've never gone to Amazon without knowing exactly what I wanted.

Your experience doesn’t jibe with market realities. Merchants play all sort of games to be the number one listed search result when you are searching for something generic like “headphones”.

Re: Amazon Sets Its Sights on the $88B Online Ad Market

#62

Post by benatkin » Mon, Sep 03, 2018, 10:45 PM UTC

krn wrote: post #53

Seeing ads in Amazon search results has substantially reduced my perceived trust in Amazon brand, since as a buyer I no longer feel like Amazon is on my side. I feel like I am Amazon's product. That it's me, who is for sale.

I've also been seeing Amazon reviews in AdChoices square-shaped banner ads. I'm not sure Amazon is facilitating this but it makes it seem like the reviews are there just to get people to buy things, and the reviews are going to keep getting more and more fake like Uber, AirBnb, and Yelp.

Re: Amazon Sets Its Sights on the $88B Online Ad Market

#63

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Sep 03, 2018, 10:47 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #2

This is my bear case for Google. Google offers the least precise targeting compared to Facebook and Amazon. Facebook knows more about its users because users tell it about themselves and Amazon knows more about purchasing habits of its users because of thier purchase and search history. If I’m searching for something with the intention on buying it, I am going to go to the specific site - like Priceline, hotels.com,…

[deleted]

Re: Amazon Sets Its Sights on the $88B Online Ad Market

#64

Post by scarface74 » Mon, Sep 03, 2018, 10:50 PM UTC

DavidHm wrote: post #58

scarface74 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Facebook knows where I actually go based on check ins. My hobbies and interest, the movies I watched, etc. People tell Facebook what they are doing. Besides people don’t use email for personal communication as much as they use apps like Messenger and WhatsApp. For high value purchases like a mortgage, wouldn’t better targeting be by advertising on a site like Zillow?

Google knows all that things too, without you having to expressly tell them. Where have you been? You are constantly tracked if you have an android device. (not sure whether it also works for iOS with google maps on). No need to check in. Hobbies and interest - search history. The amount of granular information that Google could potentially have on an individual person is terrifying. The search history alone is effec…

How does Google know my birthday, exactly how old I am, the events I said I was interested in, everytime I change jobs, my relationship status, the college I went to, where my wife and I went to see a show the other night, whether I am single, married, or somewhere in between? This is the kind of data that people tell FB about explicitly. Google only knows that have a vague interest in running. FB could have a better idea of when I go running because I might have posted about it or used one of the social apps that automatically post to FB.

Google can only “peek”, FB is having an active conversation.

Google doesn’t have the level of data for iOS devices on locations. iOS users in western countries are far more statistically valuable to advertisers than Android users.

Re: Amazon Sets Its Sights on the $88B Online Ad Market

#65

Post by greglindahl » Mon, Sep 03, 2018, 10:50 PM UTC

It's worth noting that Amazon showing ads on amazon.com is more like a "slotting fee" or "slotting allowance" than a display ad. Given that you're at amazon.com because you want to buy something, it's no surprise that online slotting fees can be lucrative. But it doesn't mean Amazon has much room to grow that beyond their overall growth.

Re: Amazon Sets Its Sights on the $88B Online Ad Market

#66

Post by hayksaakian » Mon, Sep 03, 2018, 10:51 PM UTC

nopriorarrests wrote: post #59

Scown wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All true, but as a potential advertiser you don't really get to use all that targeting when placing ads. Although to be fair that's mostly based on my experience with AdWords. On Facebook I can advertise to people in a well-defined geographical area, who are interested in a scarily well-defined set of things. On Google it's more of a just-in-time approach; catching people who are searching for something in a certain…

>as a potential advertiser you don't really get to use all that targeting when placing ads. you don't need to. since google is interested in providing you cheap relevant clicks, it will deliver them to you without exposing all the targetings. all the data available wil be utilized in choosing the right audience anyway.

This type of "trust us, we know what we're doing" targeting is typically less cost effective for advertisers. The fact it works at all is a technical achievement to be sure, but as far as Google goes I can vouch for the OP.

Re: Amazon Sets Its Sights on the $88B Online Ad Market

#67

Post by hayksaakian » Mon, Sep 03, 2018, 10:52 PM UTC

ethbro wrote: post #17

slimsag wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google offers the least precise targeting compared to Facebook and Amazon. In my experience, Amazon has _incredibly poor_ targeting. Search and place an order for cat food, and the next day you'll get an email with: > Based on your recent activity, we thought you might be interested in this. > > ... cat food, the exact same brand I bought already ... Not only that, their targeting doesn't seem to be based on my pas…

I'm guessing parent's comment was speaking more about potentials than current realities with regards to Amazon targeting. The fact is, I assume Amazon really doesn't care about the ad business. They've offloaded that via affiliate links to third parties (a smart move). Putting more effort into offering ad targeting now seems less about making money and more about draining value from Google and Facebook.

You're mixing things up, the affiliate business is a totally separate thing from the ads you see on amazon.com

Re: Amazon Sets Its Sights on the $88B Online Ad Market

#68

Post by 1000units » Mon, Sep 03, 2018, 10:52 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #54

manigandham wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely not the case. The Google machine includes: Google Analytics, Adwords/Adsense, Doubleclick network, Android and store, Chrome Browser, Chrome OS, Maps/Streetview, Gmail, G-Suite, Youtube, Google Play, Google Fiber, Google Fi, Public DNS, all the various websites with 1st party cookies, connections to Salesforce CRM, and the recently announced Mastercard purchase data. Facebook and Amazon are nowhere close t…

All of that data is still just based on Google trying to “infer” interests which is not as accurate as people telling them about themselves. For instance, Facebook knows your relationship status as soon as it changes because most people tell them . Facebook knows where people like to eat because people check in. They know which events you are going to that are advertised on FB because you tell them “that you are inte…

Most of us are much more than we say.

Re: Amazon Sets Its Sights on the $88B Online Ad Market

#69

Post by hayksaakian » Mon, Sep 03, 2018, 10:55 PM UTC

hartator wrote: post #6

scarface74 wrote: post #2

This is my bear case for Google. Google offers the least precise targeting compared to Facebook and Amazon. Facebook knows more about its users because users tell it about themselves and Amazon knows more about purchasing habits of its users because of thier purchase and search history. If I’m searching for something with the intention on buying it, I am going to go to the specific site - like Priceline, hotels.com,…

I don't know. Google is still way ahead. > Google’s U.S. ad revenue is expected to rise $5 billion this year to $39.9 billion, while Facebook could rise $3 billion this year to $21 billion, according to eMarketer. Adwords is just so effective to find your customers. You won't beat `buy new headphones` type traffic on Amazon or Facebook.

To speak to this from data:

3 out of 4 people searching "buy new headphones" will buy a product on amazon.com

On Google ads, you're lucky if one quarter of your clicks convert into anything.

Advertisers are choosing amazon because people on amazon are 1 click away from transacting. Google just can't compete there for eCommerce.

Now, on home services and virtually everything else Amazon falls short, but for direct to consumer eCommerce they win hands down.

Re: Amazon Sets Its Sights on the $88B Online Ad Market

#70

Post by bscphil » Mon, Sep 03, 2018, 10:56 PM UTC

albertgoeswoof wrote: post #45

freehunter wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought a TV on Amazon a while back, they knew I looked it up and they knew I paid money for it and they knew I received it and I even left a review so they knew I used it. I got ads to buy that same TV that they knew I already bought for months after I bought it.

The most predictable purchase for someone who has purchased one TV and reviewed it positively is the exact same TV for another room. They are just following the money, it might not make sense to an individual, but product recommendations are optimised for sales based on historical data.

That's a really good point that I hadn't considered before: sometimes the ad that maximizes the expected return won't be the ad that is most accurately targeted. If an ad for a $10 HDMI cable for your new TV snags 10% of consumers, that's a well-targeted ad, but if 1/200 consumers will purchase another $500 TV if you remind them about it occasionally for the next six months, that's the ad it makes sense to run.