Amazon Sets Its Sights on the $88B Online Ad Market • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon Sets Its Sights on the $88B Online Ad Market

#51

Post by goatherders » Mon, Sep 03, 2018, 10:25 PM UTC

mooreds wrote: post #32

I heard at a talk a few months ago that if you are planning to build an app to sell to retailers, you should build it on any cloud except for AWS. This is because the large retailers are uncomfortable with giving any revenue to Amazon. I heard echos of this in the last paragraph of the post, but there's plenty of co-opetition going on as well.

Sort of. Some retailers have chosen to use other providers because they compete with Amazon. But anyone building a new app is a LONG way from that being a roadblock to success.

Re: Amazon Sets Its Sights on the $88B Online Ad Market

#52

Post by ChuckMcM » Mon, Sep 03, 2018, 10:26 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #2

This is my bear case for Google. Google offers the least precise targeting compared to Facebook and Amazon. Facebook knows more about its users because users tell it about themselves and Amazon knows more about purchasing habits of its users because of thier purchase and search history. If I’m searching for something with the intention on buying it, I am going to go to the specific site - like Priceline, hotels.com,…

I think the advertisers agree with you. This change is reflected in advertisers reducing the amount they are willing to pay Google for a click.

Re: Amazon Sets Its Sights on the $88B Online Ad Market

#53

Post by krn » Mon, Sep 03, 2018, 10:31 PM UTC

Seeing ads in Amazon search results has substantially reduced my perceived trust in Amazon brand, since as a buyer I no longer feel like Amazon is on my side. I feel like I am Amazon's product. That it's me, who is for sale.

Re: Amazon Sets Its Sights on the $88B Online Ad Market

#54

Post by scarface74 » Mon, Sep 03, 2018, 10:33 PM UTC

manigandham wrote: post #46

scarface74 wrote: post #2

This is my bear case for Google. Google offers the least precise targeting compared to Facebook and Amazon. Facebook knows more about its users because users tell it about themselves and Amazon knows more about purchasing habits of its users because of thier purchase and search history. If I’m searching for something with the intention on buying it, I am going to go to the specific site - like Priceline, hotels.com,…

Absolutely not the case. The Google machine includes: Google Analytics, Adwords/Adsense, Doubleclick network, Android and store, Chrome Browser, Chrome OS, Maps/Streetview, Gmail, G-Suite, Youtube, Google Play, Google Fiber, Google Fi, Public DNS, all the various websites with 1st party cookies, connections to Salesforce CRM, and the recently announced Mastercard purchase data. Facebook and Amazon are nowhere close t…

All of that data is still just based on Google trying to “infer” interests which is not as accurate as people telling them about themselves. For instance, Facebook knows your relationship status as soon as it changes because most people tell them. Facebook knows where people like to eat because people check in. They know which events you are going to that are advertised on FB because you tell them “that you are interested”.

Do you know how many people check in every single time they work out?

People don’t use Google Maps when they know where they are going, but they will check in.

As far as adblockers blocking contents “in the DOM”, that doesn’t help if you’re using the FB app - one of the most popular apps in the store and most people aren’t going to install network based ad blockers.

Only geeks use Google’s DNS. Most people use whatever DNS the DHCP settings on thier router tell them. If you are using cellular data can you even change your DNS?

Re: Amazon Sets Its Sights on the $88B Online Ad Market

#55

Post by cloudwizard » Mon, Sep 03, 2018, 10:37 PM UTC

krn wrote: post #53

Seeing ads in Amazon search results has substantially reduced my perceived trust in Amazon brand, since as a buyer I no longer feel like Amazon is on my side. I feel like I am Amazon's product. That it's me, who is for sale.

Probably a bigger issue for Amazon is that a large part of the ad market is competitors or potential competitors. Walmart, Safeway, and Azure won't be advertising on Amazon.

Does P&G want Amazon to control more of the retail market? Not if it has any brains. Amazon has it's own branded home speaker systems and will not sell Google's. If Amazon brought out a shampoo brand, would it sell head and shoulders?

Re: Amazon Sets Its Sights on the $88B Online Ad Market

#56

Post by danso » Mon, Sep 03, 2018, 10:37 PM UTC

I've been long amazed at how bad Amazon's web ads are, as if the department was authorized to get rid of money as fast as possible. Besides the times -- because of one click through to a joke product like $10K ultrapremium audio cables -- that I would get followed by weeks with absurd ads, my favorite example is getting barraged by Battlestar Galactica season 3 ads right after I bought the damn thing. OTOH, perhaps Amazon's ad/recommendation system was too smart, trying to warn me from purchasing season 4.

I understand that big data learning systems are harder to tweak than what we'd suspect from ground-level day-to-day experience. But it just seems like Amazon still has plenty of room to apply some conventional heuristics to get far more efficiency than they do now.

Re: Amazon Sets Its Sights on the $88B Online Ad Market

#57

Post by scarface74 » Mon, Sep 03, 2018, 10:39 PM UTC

albertgoeswoof wrote: post #45

freehunter wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought a TV on Amazon a while back, they knew I looked it up and they knew I paid money for it and they knew I received it and I even left a review so they knew I used it. I got ads to buy that same TV that they knew I already bought for months after I bought it.

The most predictable purchase for someone who has purchased one TV and reviewed it positively is the exact same TV for another room. They are just following the money, it might not make sense to an individual, but product recommendations are optimised for sales based on historical data.

Unfortunately, that’s true. I bought three Roku TVs of different sizes in the course of year from Amazon. Actually four. I bought one for my dad.

Re: Amazon Sets Its Sights on the $88B Online Ad Market

#58

Post by DavidHm » Mon, Sep 03, 2018, 10:39 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #31

usaar333 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Facebook knows more about its users because users tell it about themselves I'd be surprised if Google doesn't know more about its users than Facebook. Google (theoretically) has access to its users' email, physical locations, browsing history, and more. And search ads remain dominant for one time, high value purchases (think insurance or a mortgage).

And Facebook knows where I actually go based on check ins. My hobbies and interest, the movies I watched, etc. People tell Facebook what they are doing. Besides people don’t use email for personal communication as much as they use apps like Messenger and WhatsApp. For high value purchases like a mortgage, wouldn’t better targeting be by advertising on a site like Zillow?

Google knows all that things too, without you having to expressly tell them.

Where have you been? You are constantly tracked if you have an android device. (not sure whether it also works for iOS with google maps on). No need to check in.

Hobbies and interest - search history.

The amount of granular information that Google could potentially have on an individual person is terrifying. The search history alone is effectively a peek into your stream of consciousness.

Re: Amazon Sets Its Sights on the $88B Online Ad Market

#59

Post by nopriorarrests » Mon, Sep 03, 2018, 10:41 PM UTC

Scown wrote: post #48

menzoic wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google has a lot more data than Facebook and Amazon combined. The targeting is not just based on your current search query. It forms a model of your behavior using your entire search history and browsing history which contains significantly more personal details about you and isn't limited to what you're willing to share in the public eye of Facebook. They also track your browsing history through every site you visit…

All true, but as a potential advertiser you don't really get to use all that targeting when placing ads. Although to be fair that's mostly based on my experience with AdWords. On Facebook I can advertise to people in a well-defined geographical area, who are interested in a scarily well-defined set of things. On Google it's more of a just-in-time approach; catching people who are searching for something in a certain…

>as a potential advertiser you don't really get to use all that targeting when placing ads.

you don't need to. since google is interested in providing you cheap relevant clicks, it will deliver them to you without exposing all the targetings. all the data available wil be utilized in choosing the right audience anyway.

Re: Amazon Sets Its Sights on the $88B Online Ad Market

#60

Post by throwawaylalala » Mon, Sep 03, 2018, 10:41 PM UTC

danso wrote: post #56

I've been long amazed at how bad Amazon's web ads are, as if the department was authorized to get rid of money as fast as possible. Besides the times -- because of one click through to a joke product like $10K ultrapremium audio cables -- that I would get followed by weeks with absurd ads, my favorite example is getting barraged by Battlestar Galactica season 3 ads right after I bought the damn thing . OTOH, perhaps…

Many of those ads are paid for by the seller. The seller frequently isnt Amazon.