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Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly

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Re: Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly

#361

Post by pixl97 »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #322
GW150914 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean the rich, temperate parts of Western Europe, most of which could fit inside Texas? Sure. If you’re being more honest it’s the urban areas of the richer, temperate parts of Weatern Europe, which is an even smaller geographic area with a total population that’s less than the US, or about 1/5th of China or India. I love cycling in Paris and Amsterdam, not so much in New York City in the winter. I also wouldn’t…

I live in Norway, in a city of 180-200k people. Folks use public transportation or walking all the time. With children. For everyday food shopping. You don't need to shop only once a week - 2-3 times makes carrying your goods easier. You can dress for the weather. It isn't all that big of a deal. Children in strollers have warm stuff around them. They sell bikes with studded tires for use on snow. It was tiring when…

No,it is not because transportation sucks...

Its because things are built in a manner optimized for automobile transportation. Fixing sidewalks isn't going to fix mega grocery stores miles and miles apart. Places where people walk/bike tend to have a business infrastructure built to support it.

Re: Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly

#362

Post by Waterluvian »

stellar678 wrote: post #35

They neglected a huge part of the coming electric vehicle picture: lightweight, slow-speed electric vehicles. Almost 60% of US car trips are 5 miles or shorter. (2017 ref: https://nhts.ornl.gov/tables09/ae/work/Job63697.html , 2009 ref: https://nhts.ornl.gov/tables09/fatcat/2009/vt_TRPMILES.html ) Scooters, e-bikes, and electric cargo bikes (not to mention the human-powered versions!) will soak up an enormous portion…

I'm excited for a critical mass of those kinds of vehicles. I want one now but someone in an SUV is going kill me one day so I avoid it.

Re: Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly

#363

Post by rhino369 »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #344
zizee wrote: post #45

I think that electric car adoption is going to have similar characteristics to digital cameras. I remember playing with an early digital camera and seeing a poor replacement for film, but with obvious benefits. Back then it was common to hear "serious" photographers pooh-poohing digital, and how it's many drawbacks would mean it would remain niche, and never replace film. It didn't take long and digial cameras improv…

> "The batteries are no good in really cold climates" If that's true of EVs (I have no idea, but it is/was true of the batteries in digital cameras), then it's very odd that EVs are so popular in Norway. Incentives can only get you so far if the product doesn't work well in local conditions.

Norway has extreme incentives. EV’s are functional in northern climates, they have lower range.

Re: Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly

#364

Post by i80and »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #344
zizee wrote: post #45

I think that electric car adoption is going to have similar characteristics to digital cameras. I remember playing with an early digital camera and seeing a poor replacement for film, but with obvious benefits. Back then it was common to hear "serious" photographers pooh-poohing digital, and how it's many drawbacks would mean it would remain niche, and never replace film. It didn't take long and digial cameras improv…

> "The batteries are no good in really cold climates" If that's true of EVs (I have no idea, but it is/was true of the batteries in digital cameras), then it's very odd that EVs are so popular in Norway. Incentives can only get you so far if the product doesn't work well in local conditions.

Norway is not especially cold. Neither Trondheim nor Oslo have average January lows below +20°F.

Re: Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly

#365

Post by sixstringbudha »

CommieBobDole wrote: post #346
sixstringbudha wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are so many obvious benefits of electric cars, as soon as they are close to cost competitive. Like what exactly? You will have to assume that I am a modern man who don't give two shits about the environment, when deciding to buy a car. So can you give me one significant advantage that an electric car will give me over an ICE car, right now?

Cost of fueling - electricity is cheaper than gas. Lower cost of ownership - electric cars are mechanically much simpler than ICE cars, which means better reliability and less money spent for maintenance/repairs. Better performance - Electronically-controlled electric motors have much better, more controllable torque curves than even the best ICE. Not just a matter of "accelerates faster", but more torque available a…

> Cost of fueling - electricity is cheaper than gas.

Nullified by the fact that charging stations are scarce AND that it takes a lot of time to finish a charge. People drive cars so that they can get somewhere faster. It does not help if they have to hunt around for a charging stations and have to wait an hour to get charged.

We can consider the cost difference to be a concrete advantage, when and only when the infra for electric charging is on par with a fuel refill.

> Lower cost of ownership - electric cars are mechanically much simpler than ICE cars, which means better reliability and less money spent for maintenance/repairs.

I don't think this is a given. Even though more complex, I think ICE cars of today are quite reliable enough. Are there any studies that compare both and say Electric cars are indeed more reliable than an average ICE car? I am not sure how reliable this is, but [1]

> more controllable torque curves than even the best ICE

Oh I am perfectly fine with the torque curve of an ICE. I am not racing on the roads, you know. With automatic transmissions, this is even less of an issue.

[1] https://www.policygenius.com/blog/how-much-does-it-actually-...

Re: Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly

#366

Post by ecpottinger »

sokoloff wrote: post #312
udfalkso wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is the weight of concern to you?

Not prior poster, but mass is detrimental to almost every aspect of the driving experience. Heavy cars accelerate slower, brake longer, turn worse, and wear tires more quickly than an equivalent car that's lighter.

By that logic the Tesla cars would be losing all the races, but they does not - they win.

Did you consider that your experience with ICE cars does not apply directly to BEV cars?

Re: Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly

#367

Post by Tuna-Fish »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #344
zizee wrote: post #45

I think that electric car adoption is going to have similar characteristics to digital cameras. I remember playing with an early digital camera and seeing a poor replacement for film, but with obvious benefits. Back then it was common to hear "serious" photographers pooh-poohing digital, and how it's many drawbacks would mean it would remain niche, and never replace film. It didn't take long and digial cameras improv…

> "The batteries are no good in really cold climates" If that's true of EVs (I have no idea, but it is/was true of the batteries in digital cameras), then it's very odd that EVs are so popular in Norway. Incentives can only get you so far if the product doesn't work well in local conditions.

Most of Norway is much warmer than you'd think. The Gulf Stream hits Norway head on, making it much warmer than similar latitudes on the other side of the Atlantic. In Oslo, temperatures very rarely go below -10C.

Re: Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly

#368

Post by mecameron »

londons_explore wrote: post #335
zizee wrote: post #45

I think that electric car adoption is going to have similar characteristics to digital cameras. I remember playing with an early digital camera and seeing a poor replacement for film, but with obvious benefits. Back then it was common to hear "serious" photographers pooh-poohing digital, and how it's many drawbacks would mean it would remain niche, and never replace film. It didn't take long and digial cameras improv…

The only real benefit of electric cars is more environmentally friendly. Since the environment is a collective problem rather than an individual problem, the transition wouldn't ever happen without government intervention. Hence, I think the moment of inflection is entirely down to government policies, and very little down to consumer desires.

I could see that viewpoint if you've never driven electric, but I think ultimately it's just a better product. Quiet, quick acceleration, never visiting a stinky gas station (charging at home is so liberating), much cheaper and easier maintenance, etc. The counter points are quickly eroding and falling.

Nissan did a great commercial at the launch of the Leaf [1] showing a world where a lot of our electric appliances were powered by gas. It's obviously absurd, but that's part of the point. I think we'll look back on this period 30-50 years from now and wonder in amazement that we drove such obviously inferior polluting dinosaurs for so long.

[1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvbDVGWwzQc

Re: Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly

#369

Post by ecpottinger »

londons_explore wrote: post #335
zizee wrote: post #45

I think that electric car adoption is going to have similar characteristics to digital cameras. I remember playing with an early digital camera and seeing a poor replacement for film, but with obvious benefits. Back then it was common to hear "serious" photographers pooh-poohing digital, and how it's many drawbacks would mean it would remain niche, and never replace film. It didn't take long and digial cameras improv…

The only real benefit of electric cars is more environmentally friendly. Since the environment is a collective problem rather than an individual problem, the transition wouldn't ever happen without government intervention. Hence, I think the moment of inflection is entirely down to government policies, and very little down to consumer desires.

Weird, I want to get one since I am adding solar panels (already bought them) to my tiny house and thus I can charge the car for free. Why pay for gas at $1.26 CND a liter?

1.26*3.8=$4.788/1.30=$3.68 a gallon in the US.

Re: Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly

#370

Post by sokoloff »

ecpottinger wrote: post #366
sokoloff wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not prior poster, but mass is detrimental to almost every aspect of the driving experience. Heavy cars accelerate slower, brake longer, turn worse, and wear tires more quickly than an equivalent car that's lighter.

By that logic the Tesla cars would be losing all the races, but they does not - they win. Did you consider that your experience with ICE cars does not apply directly to BEV cars?

What are these track events that Teslas are winning? They're horrible track cars. A plain Jane 911 will walk all over them on a road course.

https://www.quora.com/How-does-a-Tesla-perform-on-a-track

https://insideevs.com/expected-tesla-model-s-fails-lap-nurbu...

http://www.thedrive.com/news/5207/this-video-reminds-us-that...

To be clear: I think the Model S is a fine, if overpriced, road car. I daily a LEAF and like it; I am no electric hater.

However, performance of all-battery cars is compromised as compared to lighter cars; it's that pesky physics thing...

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