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Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly

bloomberg.com

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Re: Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly

#341

Post by davidgould »

gnicholas wrote: post #247
Marsymars wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would someone buy an electric car if they had to pay the equivalent price of gas to charge it?

I bought a used C-MAX plug-in hybrid and was told that with the EV plan offered by PG&E, I'd save money versus gas. Only after I purchased did I learn that the EV plan gives you cheaper charging at night only if you're willing to stomach very high rates during the day. Since I work from home a lot and have a toddler, this is a non-starter for my family. So we pay roughly the same amount per mile with electricity as f…

I don't understand this calculation. Does your toddler use a excessive amount of electricity? Do you work at home running an aluminum smelter?

Snark aside, when we got our Chevy Spark EV in 2013, we switched to the EV rate plan and it has saved us a lot. I work at home too, and but the peak hour use on the EV plan is quite small, so the higher rate is balanced out by having the car automatically charge during off-peak.

Re: Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly

#342

Post by baxtr »

HeadsUpHigh wrote: post #302
baxtr wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one thing that is really different is that digital cameras didn’t required a huge network of infrastructure to succeed. That’s unfortunately where you’re analogy breaks down

That's a very weak excuse, especially when there are tons of money to be made building that infrastructure.

I’m not excusing anything, I’m just pointing out where the analogy breaks

Re: Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly

#343

Post by sixstringbudha »

zizee wrote: post #45

I think that electric car adoption is going to have similar characteristics to digital cameras. I remember playing with an early digital camera and seeing a poor replacement for film, but with obvious benefits. Back then it was common to hear "serious" photographers pooh-poohing digital, and how it's many drawbacks would mean it would remain niche, and never replace film. It didn't take long and digial cameras improv…

> There are so many obvious benefits of electric cars, as soon as they are close to cost competitive.

Like what exactly? You will have to assume that I am a modern man who don't give two shits about the environment, when deciding to buy a car. So can you give me one significant advantage that an electric car will give me over an ICE car, right now?

Re: Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly

#344

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

zizee wrote: post #45

I think that electric car adoption is going to have similar characteristics to digital cameras. I remember playing with an early digital camera and seeing a poor replacement for film, but with obvious benefits. Back then it was common to hear "serious" photographers pooh-poohing digital, and how it's many drawbacks would mean it would remain niche, and never replace film. It didn't take long and digial cameras improv…

> "The batteries are no good in really cold climates"

If that's true of EVs (I have no idea, but it is/was true of the batteries in digital cameras), then it's very odd that EVs are so popular in Norway.

Incentives can only get you so far if the product doesn't work well in local conditions.

Re: Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly

#345

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

baxtr wrote: post #237
zizee wrote: post #45

I think that electric car adoption is going to have similar characteristics to digital cameras. I remember playing with an early digital camera and seeing a poor replacement for film, but with obvious benefits. Back then it was common to hear "serious" photographers pooh-poohing digital, and how it's many drawbacks would mean it would remain niche, and never replace film. It didn't take long and digial cameras improv…

The one thing that is really different is that digital cameras didn’t required a huge network of infrastructure to succeed. That’s unfortunately where you’re analogy breaks down

> digital cameras didn’t required a huge network of infrastructure to succeed.

Yes, of course they do. What are you going to do with some .jpegs without the internet? Literally a huge network, and it was rolled out around the same time.

Re: Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly

#346

Post by CommieBobDole »

sixstringbudha wrote: post #343
zizee wrote: post #45

I think that electric car adoption is going to have similar characteristics to digital cameras. I remember playing with an early digital camera and seeing a poor replacement for film, but with obvious benefits. Back then it was common to hear "serious" photographers pooh-poohing digital, and how it's many drawbacks would mean it would remain niche, and never replace film. It didn't take long and digial cameras improv…

> There are so many obvious benefits of electric cars, as soon as they are close to cost competitive. Like what exactly? You will have to assume that I am a modern man who don't give two shits about the environment, when deciding to buy a car. So can you give me one significant advantage that an electric car will give me over an ICE car, right now?

Cost of fueling - electricity is cheaper than gas.

Lower cost of ownership - electric cars are mechanically much simpler than ICE cars, which means better reliability and less money spent for maintenance/repairs.

Better performance - Electronically-controlled electric motors have much better, more controllable torque curves than even the best ICE. Not just a matter of "accelerates faster", but more torque available at nearly every speed/driving condition.

That's just a few off the top of my head.

Re: Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly

#347

Post by rahoulb »

ObsoleteNerd wrote: post #76
stellar678 wrote: post #35

They neglected a huge part of the coming electric vehicle picture: lightweight, slow-speed electric vehicles. Almost 60% of US car trips are 5 miles or shorter. (2017 ref: https://nhts.ornl.gov/tables09/ae/work/Job63697.html , 2009 ref: https://nhts.ornl.gov/tables09/fatcat/2009/vt_TRPMILES.html ) Scooters, e-bikes, and electric cargo bikes (not to mention the human-powered versions!) will soak up an enormous portion…

I never thought of that. Are there the same moves in tiny electric hatchbacks (eg kei sized, not Leafs), scooters, mopeds, etc as there is currently in fullsize cars? I'd love a high quality electric moped to run down the shops and pick up milk and bread, or pick something up from the post office. All I've seen is those cheap plastic electric mopeds that people get from eBay/Aliexpress or Costco. I don't remember see…

Take a look at the Renault Twizy. Legally is a quad bike and it charges off a domestic supply.

Re: Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly

#348

Post by ben_w »

codeulike wrote: post #329
ben_w wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10 PWh / year (just over 1 TW average) is currently a half-trillion dollar installation cost, assuming $0.23/W PV with a 50% duty cycle. Yes, this is still an improvement; yes it should be done; it’s just not trivial .

Also, most charging will happen at home, at night.

I doubt that; PV is cheap compared to storage, so it makes more sense to install twice as much PV as needed and include the charging plugs in existing car parks (and waste some power during commuting and lunch breaks), than to add enough immobile storage to allow most car charging to happen at night.

Re: Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly

#349

Post by davedx »

sixstringbudha wrote: post #343
zizee wrote: post #45

I think that electric car adoption is going to have similar characteristics to digital cameras. I remember playing with an early digital camera and seeing a poor replacement for film, but with obvious benefits. Back then it was common to hear "serious" photographers pooh-poohing digital, and how it's many drawbacks would mean it would remain niche, and never replace film. It didn't take long and digial cameras improv…

> There are so many obvious benefits of electric cars, as soon as they are close to cost competitive. Like what exactly? You will have to assume that I am a modern man who don't give two shits about the environment, when deciding to buy a car. So can you give me one significant advantage that an electric car will give me over an ICE car, right now?

* Acceleration

* No gears - acceleration is linear

* No chance of diesel fumes in your cabin (like with my VW Sharan)

* Lots of tax rebates, subsidies, depending on where you live

* Charge at home

* More room! (No bulky drivetrain)

* Less maintenance, less things to go wrong

* Lower fuel costs

* Simpler to own and drive

Re: Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly

#350

Post by davidgould »

sfifs wrote: post #132
jblow wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Household wiring will anyway not have enough current capacity to support charging citation needed

Sure here https://www.tesla.com/support/home-charging-installation#out... Most home electricity installations have circuit breakers @ 15 Amps where I live. Wiring typically rated to a max 20 Amps draw before overheating. At a below 15 Amps current draw levels, you'll required an inordinate number of hours of charging for getting mileage on the battery and it's just not practical.

When we first got our electric car we used a cord strung out the window, 12 amps at 120 volts. Not a problem, plug in when you get home, unless you need more than 60 miles this will be fine.
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