The Twenty-Five Year Journey of Magic the Gathering • Hacker News Board

Re: The Twenty-Five Year Journey of Magic the Gathering

#41

Post by simonsarris » Sat, Sep 01, 2018, 7:19 PM UTC

mcv wrote: post #18

I recently dug up my old cards from the storage. My 11 year old nephew learned to play Magic while on vacation, bought two cheap decks, and taught it (badly) to my 9 year old son. At some point in all that, of course I need to show this old shoebox chock full of old Magic cards. Instead of letting him play with my old cards, I decided that my son needs to have his own cards, so we went to my local game store and boug…

the monsters > spells was the thing I noticed too. After college in 2010-2012 I went to play some drafts for a laff like I used to when I was a kid. I'd flip through the card catalog for 20 minutes before it started and figured I'd just jump right back in.

I lost pretty handily, and the big takeaway was what you found.

I hate to say it because its the hokey hipster thing to note, but back when I was a kid and it was all Urza's Saga, Mercadian Masques, etc, the cards felt much more... gritty and real. Everything felt more bloody and less cartoonish and lightweight. Maybe that was part of being a kid.

Play is actually much better/more balanced than I remember though, by far.

Re: The Twenty-Five Year Journey of Magic the Gathering

#42

Post by mcv » Sat, Sep 01, 2018, 7:33 PM UTC

hajile wrote: post #34

mcv wrote: post #18

I recently dug up my old cards from the storage. My 11 year old nephew learned to play Magic while on vacation, bought two cheap decks, and taught it (badly) to my 9 year old son. At some point in all that, of course I need to show this old shoebox chock full of old Magic cards. Instead of letting him play with my old cards, I decided that my son needs to have his own cards, so we went to my local game store and boug…

The official rules are 250+ pages of legalese. For reference since you've been gone a while, the best casual format (by far) is Commander (EDH). Buy him a couple cheap duel decks to learn the basics (phases, stack, etc). Then buy one of the prebuilt Commander decks (the 4 color ones would be best) to get started All that together is around $60 ($100 if you want a second Commander deck to play with him). Not a bad dea…

An official format that allows only one of every card is a great idea. Back in university, some people also got tired of all the highly tuned decks with dozens of very similar cards, and decided to play with that rule, calling it "Highlander decks" (there can be only one!).

I believe my son or nephew also insisted I shouldn't have more than one of each card in my deck, so maybe the guy who taught my nephew only played Commander.

Although googling for it, it seems Commander comes with a lot of extra rules. I'm not sure that's what I'm looking for.

Re: The Twenty-Five Year Journey of Magic the Gathering

#43

Post by navbaker » Sat, Sep 01, 2018, 9:42 PM UTC

heimdall wrote: post #2

> In the game, players were fashioned as “planeswalkers,” who cast spells and travel between planes of existence. The spells themselves were the cards, ... I played 1999-2004 and now 2016+, mostly non-tournament casual for this exact idea that most players seem to have forgotten. Decks with an emphasis on flavor feel more in line with the core theme of the game, and it's a very rewarding experience to roleplay a Plan…

This is how I approach the game and my friends and I have an absolute blast. Card Kingdom makes some EXCELLENT duel decks with great themes (zombie, pirate, eldrazi drone, all legendaries, etc) for 10 bucks a piece and we have fun on lunch breaks playing for bragging rights. Nothing beats winning over your friend’s graveyard recursion deck that he’s won with for two weeks straight after tuning the crap out of a straight dinosaurs deck!

Re: The Twenty-Five Year Journey of Magic the Gathering

#44

Post by hajile » Sat, Sep 01, 2018, 10:28 PM UTC

simonsarris wrote: post #41

mcv wrote: post #18

I recently dug up my old cards from the storage. My 11 year old nephew learned to play Magic while on vacation, bought two cheap decks, and taught it (badly) to my 9 year old son. At some point in all that, of course I need to show this old shoebox chock full of old Magic cards. Instead of letting him play with my old cards, I decided that my son needs to have his own cards, so we went to my local game store and boug…

the monsters > spells was the thing I noticed too. After college in 2010-2012 I went to play some drafts for a laff like I used to when I was a kid. I'd flip through the card catalog for 20 minutes before it started and figured I'd just jump right back in. I lost pretty handily, and the big takeaway was what you found. I hate to say it because its the hokey hipster thing to note, but back when I was a kid and it was…

NWO changed everything. Lowest common denominator plus the belief that magic players are idiots.

They decided nobody likes stax decks. Then nobody likes land destruction. Then nobody likes combo. Then nobody likes counterspells. Then nobody likes any other kind of control either. Finally, nobody really likes spells. So everything became mid-range and aggro except that aggro generally loses to mid-range.

So just mid-range turn creates sideways and nothing that adds real complexity to the game.

Stopped with standard after RTR and every time I've looked, it's been too unfun for me to drop hundreds of dollars playing standard again.

https://mtg.gamepedia.com/New_World_Order

Re: The Twenty-Five Year Journey of Magic the Gathering

#45

Post by ubernostrum » Sat, Sep 01, 2018, 10:50 PM UTC

jon_richards wrote: post #17

FranzFerdiNaN wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a bad analogy. If golf had specific rules about length and material of each golf club that also changed every year, requiring you to buy new clubs to match the rules, you might have a point.

Golf companies also don't sell you unknown bags of gear that may either contain something useful or a complete pile of crap.

And competitive Magic players don't buy booster packs unless they're planning to play draft. They go to a store and buy the individual cards they want.

Re: The Twenty-Five Year Journey of Magic the Gathering

#46

Post by ubernostrum » Sat, Sep 01, 2018, 10:51 PM UTC

gpderetta wrote: post #19

FranzFerdiNaN wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a bad analogy. If golf had specific rules about length and material of each golf club that also changed every year, requiring you to buy new clubs to match the rules, you might have a point.

Non rotating formats, although more expensive, are very popular, especially Modern and Commander. Outside of bans, the playable card pool is very stable and changes relatively little even with new expansions. I don't play golf, but I assume that equipment wears out and need to replaced (balls, bags if not bats).

Non-rotating formats are more expensive up-front than Standard, but tend to be cheaper long-term because the cards stay legal and usually things don't shift enough to make them completely unplayable.

Re: The Twenty-Five Year Journey of Magic the Gathering

#47

Post by hajile » Sat, Sep 01, 2018, 10:55 PM UTC

mcv wrote: post #42

hajile wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The official rules are 250+ pages of legalese. For reference since you've been gone a while, the best casual format (by far) is Commander (EDH). Buy him a couple cheap duel decks to learn the basics (phases, stack, etc). Then buy one of the prebuilt Commander decks (the 4 color ones would be best) to get started All that together is around $60 ($100 if you want a second Commander deck to play with him). Not a bad dea…

An official format that allows only one of every card is a great idea. Back in university, some people also got tired of all the highly tuned decks with dozens of very similar cards, and decided to play with that rule, calling it "Highlander decks" (there can be only one!). I believe my son or nephew also insisted I shouldn't have more than one of each card in my deck, so maybe the guy who taught my nephew only playe…

Highlander became Commander. There are only a couple extra rules. In human speak:

1. cards in your deck (100 total including the commander) have to be the same colors as your commander.

2. you start at 40 life and a commander in your command zone.

3. if your commander goes to the graveyard or exile, put him back in the command zone, but he costs 2 more colorless to cast each time this happens.

4. if a commander personally deals 21 damage to someone, they lose.

If they insisted on one card, they were playing commander or brawl (MTG's new "commander lite" using 60 cards, standard only with slightly different life rules).

Re: The Twenty-Five Year Journey of Magic the Gathering

#48

Post by gpderetta » Sun, Sep 02, 2018, 12:36 AM UTC

hajile wrote: post #44

simonsarris wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the monsters > spells was the thing I noticed too. After college in 2010-2012 I went to play some drafts for a laff like I used to when I was a kid. I'd flip through the card catalog for 20 minutes before it started and figured I'd just jump right back in. I lost pretty handily, and the big takeaway was what you found. I hate to say it because its the hokey hipster thing to note, but back when I was a kid and it was…

NWO changed everything. Lowest common denominator plus the belief that magic players are idiots. They decided nobody likes stax decks. Then nobody likes land destruction. Then nobody likes combo. Then nobody likes counterspells. Then nobody likes any other kind of control either. Finally, nobody really likes spells. So everything became mid-range and aggro except that aggro generally loses to mid-range. So just mid-r…

Modern currently is dominated by fast aggro and combo, with a resurgence of control to pray on combo. Midrange is basically dead.

Re: The Twenty-Five Year Journey of Magic the Gathering

#49

Post by gpderetta » Sun, Sep 02, 2018, 12:40 AM UTC

luckettpat wrote: post #37

mcv wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I certainly do like the art. Although over the years, a lot of art has become more generic. The first sets of cards had in my opinion much more iconic art. Look at Llanowar Elves, for example. And some cards are really pure works of art.

I feel like there used to be more variety and weirdness in the art style. Something like Plague Spitter https://bit.ly/2PWwvyf or Stasis https://bit.ly/2ovqWdu wouldn't happen anymore. Most of the art these days feels like generic fantasy art that could be painted on the side of a van. I will acknowledge this may be totally unfair, old-timer nostalgia.

The Fascist Art Director [1] is a thing.

[1] http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiver...

Re: The Twenty-Five Year Journey of Magic the Gathering

#50

Post by hajile » Sun, Sep 02, 2018, 5:56 AM UTC

gpderetta wrote: post #48

hajile wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NWO changed everything. Lowest common denominator plus the belief that magic players are idiots. They decided nobody likes stax decks. Then nobody likes land destruction. Then nobody likes combo. Then nobody likes counterspells. Then nobody likes any other kind of control either. Finally, nobody really likes spells. So everything became mid-range and aggro except that aggro generally loses to mid-range. So just mid-r…

Modern currently is dominated by fast aggro and combo, with a resurgence of control to pray on combo. Midrange is basically dead.

The cards that power modern were mostly made before NWO started directly affecting the pipeline.

Control can beat basically any deck that isn't completely broken (eg, eldrazi winter), but does so at the expense of losing to everything else. In addition, burn is cheap and played a lot day 1. It lowers most control deck numbers enough to make a top 8 contention impossible.

Teferi has helped a lot as one of very few consistent win conditions across the field. I think modern really needs UU counterspell for control to be less than niche. Once the field diversifies a bit again, control will once again fade to T2.