Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young • Hacker News Board

Re: Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

#171

Post by bittercynic » Sat, Sep 01, 2018, 8:57 PM UTC

0xcde4c3db wrote: post #49

I have a really hard time finding any kind of social connection that seems genuine and not a front for some kind of business/religious/political pursuit. It's like social connections are seen as merely a resource to exploit rather than being valuable for the actual human connection.

When the explicit goal of the event is social interaction, it usually feels that way to me, too, but when there is something else going on, the social interactions are somewhat optional, and feel way more natural/less forced.

I highly recommend finding something you're sincerely interested in doing, and then finding a group to do that thing with. Could be cycling, robot building, 3d printing, softball, etc. I've had the best luck when it is an event that is not generally attractive to people trying to "network" or hook up, etc; not that it's a problem if some people there are doing those things, but if that's what the majority are doing it detracts from the atmosphere for me, and you, too, from the sound of it.

Re: Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

#172

Post by Animats » Sat, Sep 01, 2018, 8:58 PM UTC

zeroxfe wrote: post #24

0x4f3759df wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone once made the same point about fitness, you used to have to roll down your windows manually, but now its automatic. More and more muscle functions being eliminated by automation. Add them all up and it makes a difference.

Now that many new cars are coming with have high-def wide-angle rear view cameras, I don't really need my neck muscles anymore. At some point we'll "evolve" to rocks... rocks with wifi.

That's where fat acceptance has brought us.

Re: Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

#173

Post by com2kid » Sat, Sep 01, 2018, 9:21 PM UTC

ddebernardy wrote: post #147

PeterStuer wrote: post #4

Another thing I wondered about is the impact of automation and volatility on, for lack of a better word 'involuntary' micro social interactions. Until fairly recently people had 'forced' social interactions when doing their finances, shopping etc. Even if involuntary they 'trained' people's social skills and withered away at their acquired/innate social anxiety. Furthermore, even in these situations the persons you i…

I agree with most of your points but part of this bit is incorrect: > Even if involuntary they 'trained' people's social skills and withered away at their acquired/innate social anxiety. Humans don't have a shred of innate social anxiety except perhaps in some odd pathological cases. Any parent who has dealt with a toddler that has yet to learn to talk will tell you that much. Toddlers who can't speak yet try very ha…

> Humans don't have a shred of innate social anxiety except perhaps in some odd pathological cases.

This is not true at all. Baby's, even at a few months old, run the gamut from excited to meet new people to shy and withdrawn around strangers.

I have a friend whose son, at 6 months old, was well socialized but completely uneager to interact with people he didn't know.

And I've met plenty of toddlers who hide behind their parents and don't come out, and plenty of toddlers who run up to everyone they come across and say "hi".

Re: Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

#174

Post by rossdavidh » Sat, Sep 01, 2018, 9:31 PM UTC

ddebernardy wrote: post #147

PeterStuer wrote: post #4

Another thing I wondered about is the impact of automation and volatility on, for lack of a better word 'involuntary' micro social interactions. Until fairly recently people had 'forced' social interactions when doing their finances, shopping etc. Even if involuntary they 'trained' people's social skills and withered away at their acquired/innate social anxiety. Furthermore, even in these situations the persons you i…

I agree with most of your points but part of this bit is incorrect: > Even if involuntary they 'trained' people's social skills and withered away at their acquired/innate social anxiety. Humans don't have a shred of innate social anxiety except perhaps in some odd pathological cases. Any parent who has dealt with a toddler that has yet to learn to talk will tell you that much. Toddlers who can't speak yet try very ha…

There is a stage, fairly early on, in a typical kid's life where they get very shy about strangers, and hide behind their parents whenever a stranger is there. It's not immediate, that's true, but after they have gotten old enough to know which adults are familiar, anyone who isn't seems to become frightening (until they learn to get over that, which in most cases they do).

Re: Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

#175

Post by afarrell » Sat, Sep 01, 2018, 10:00 PM UTC

If I was to start a company at this point, it would probably be focused on this problem. I'm not sure what though, because I worry that anything which would be profitable wouldn't be really incrementally solving the problem.

Maybe a MOOC which taught courses like:

- How to arrange an outing with friends: logistics and communication

- How to follow up after you've just met someone

- How to loop a new person into a conversation among folks who know each other

- How to continue a conversation after someone said something awkward about the ever-present march of time and our bodies' unstoppable march toward death

- How to help a friend talk through a problem which is emotionally distressing for them

- How to introduce a friend to someone you think they might be romantically compatible with

- How to tell exceedingly dorky jokes with excellent timing so as to put someone at ease

Or other things.

Re: Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

#176

Post by NeedMoreTea » Sat, Sep 01, 2018, 10:12 PM UTC

hutzlibu wrote: post #145

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that is the opposite though. We've mostly burnt the bridge you used to get there. In the 90s BBS's, IRC and even ICQ had sites to connect people where people would list interests etc, people had ICQ or other icons on their home page to connect and just randomly chat. BBS's and interest groups would have meet ups and yearly BBQs etc. There was an openness, perhaps a little naivety, to connecting with str…

I would like to add games to the list of counterexamples. Still works today. Even though I never made friends online (as I was not so into it) I know friends who did.

Does it still work?

I don't play online games any more, but my impression is they mostly moved from guild and group style like MMOs, where you got to know people and probably chatted on Teamspeak as well. Now they seem to be mostly random individual match-ups either for pvp or for a dungeon. That seems like it would take away many of the possibilities.

Re: Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

#177

Post by btingle » Sat, Sep 01, 2018, 10:17 PM UTC

ronnier wrote: post #136

kuroguro wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that even possible?

Naturally there are more men born than women. I'd guess also more men than women migrate to the US for work. Men used to die in large number from war and work, not so anymore. So here we are.

>Naturally there are more men born than women

The ratio of men to women in the US is almost exactly 50/50 (with a slight bias to women!) In fact, that ratio has gone down in favor of women over the years[0], which invalidates your last point. And unless you live in a select few states[1] this holds true.

Instead of there being a secret gender imbalance cover up, it seems much more likely to me that cities with large tech industries (like NYC) are just swimming with sausage.

[0]https://www.census.gov/prod/2001pubs/c2kbr01-9.pdf

[1]https://www.statista.com/statistics/301946/us-population-mal...

Re: Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

#178

Post by phil21 » Sat, Sep 01, 2018, 10:17 PM UTC

kuschku wrote: post #54

onion2k wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More and more muscle functions being eliminated by automation. Only trivially small ones that we'd do a few times a week. There's still lots of physical activity that we do (eg walking around, carrying things like shopping, sex, etc). Plus, many people have replaced the small manual activities like opening car windows with going to the gym. Anyone who has a sedentary desk job but tries to live a relatively healthy li…

> Only trivially small ones that we'd do a few times a week. There's still lots of physical activity that we do (eg walking around, carrying things like shopping, sex, etc). Not everywhere — one of the major reasons fitness (and BMI) is correlated with walkability of a city is that in many typical US cities, you barely have to walk anymore, while in the more walkable cities driving is less possible, and you’ll walk o…

It adds up a lot. I split my time between a typical suburban car-centric city (Minneapolis), and a place just off the El in Chicago.

The weeks I am in Chicago I lose weight without really trying - simply from walking to/from the train every day and around the neighborhood running errands. Then of course lunch in the office which of course is another walk away. All those little walking trips add up to miles/day without even noticing and add up to a noticeable change in weight loss/gain.

Minneapolis it's rare to walk more than 100ft (to a car and back) to go anywhere - unless you make a concerted conscious effort to take time to walk for the sake of walking.

Re: Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

#179

Post by clarry » Sat, Sep 01, 2018, 10:19 PM UTC

nickjj wrote: post #116

TimTheTinker wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It doesn't matter if people aren't doing it as much. Yes it does. Threads of society are being cut, which is not only causing loneliness, but also emotional distancing, political polarization, demonizing folks in other camps, etc.

> Yes it does. Threads of society are being cut, which is not only causing loneliness, but also emotional distancing, political polarization, demonizing folks in other camps, etc. The post I replied to mentioned specifically small talk with various clerks and tellers. Those clerks and tellers are still there today, just like they were 20 years ago. If you walk into any of those stores listed, you'll find human beings…

> I think blaming technology is just a cop out.

Oh, tech doesn't prevent one from seeking out social interaction. But it really does seem to reduce unplanned & opportunistic interaction.

Maybe I'd chat with people on my way to work. Problem is, they're most likely sitting in a car. Or riding a bike. Or blasting music from their headphones while staring at their phones.. actually, maybe I'm sitting in a car too. Or not, because technology enables remote work and I don't have a commute.

Same phenomenon when I go for a walk or jog. People are preoccupied with their devices.

Re: Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

#180

Post by closeparen » Sat, Sep 01, 2018, 10:23 PM UTC

PeterStuer wrote: post #4

Another thing I wondered about is the impact of automation and volatility on, for lack of a better word 'involuntary' micro social interactions. Until fairly recently people had 'forced' social interactions when doing their finances, shopping etc. Even if involuntary they 'trained' people's social skills and withered away at their acquired/innate social anxiety. Furthermore, even in these situations the persons you i…

As someone with a history of loneliness, I’ve have no shortage of businesslike interactions with strangers and acquantiances. The problem has always been a lack of close relationships with emotional weight. The effect of superficial interactions on my mood is neutral at best, and sometimes negative (as a reminder that my interactions stem from business necessity and institutional circumstances rather than interest and choice).