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Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

economist.com

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Re: Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

#141

Post by dorchadas »

Thriptic wrote: post #135
_8j50 wrote: post #76

Have you seen the movie "Shawshank Redemption"? It makes an interesting point about becoming institutionalized. There was an inmate that was released after ~50 years,he committed suicide because he couldn't adopt to living outside of the prison system. What they call the loneliness epidemic these days is a bit like that. In fact,I would say loneliness is social imprisonment. For one reason or the other individuals en…

This is very true and I see it even in myself. I used to have several friends where I live and they subsequently all moved away. Now I have no real friends here and the work required to get more seems to require a huge activation energy to get over. Sure I could go out and have random conversations with people or join clubs, but very few of those are going to result in anything interesting; of those, a few may result…

Are you in a rural area? I've noticed that myself here. Granted, I left for university, which destroyed a lot of the connections I did have, but even with the ones still here, the different life experience has made it where it's odd to hang out with them.

Thankfully some of my friends did move back after going to school, so there are a few people here that I can hang out with, though I do feel like I hound them to do stuff/hang out at times. But, I also moved a half-hour away to a town where there's stuff to do, and I just have to actually take up a new hobby to meet interesting people.

Though that still doesn't change the fact that it's difficult to make long-term, deep friendships from things like that.

Really, I just say that I understand completely where you're coming from, and completely agree.

Also, I just kinda realized that this is also similar to the plot of the movie I Love You, Man, where Rudd's character realizes he doesn't have any deep male friends.

Re: Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

#142

Post by gbear605 »

ronnier wrote: post #123
gbear605 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For people between 25 and 54, in America, there are almost exactly as many men as women, to within less than one percent. [0] So if you see more men than women around you, that's a filter bubble that you've artificially put yourself in. Therefore the converse must be that there are many other places in America where there are more women than men. So go out, socialize, get away from your bubble, and meet other people.…

Looking at this, singles between 18 and 44, there's just a massive amount of men compared to women: http://jonathansoma.com/singles/#1/6/2/0

That only charts cities. I strongly suspect that the answer is just that there are unmatched women who lives in more rural/suburban areas.

For people between 18 and 44, the number of men very closely matches the number of women. So, ignoring polyamory, the the proportion of singles across America must be very gender-equal. Since that shows that the proportion of singles in cities in male-skewed, the proportion of singles elsewhere must be female-skewed.

Re: Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

#143

Post by gbear605 »

kuroguro wrote: post #132
ronnier wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at this, singles between 18 and 44, there's just a massive amount of men compared to women: http://jonathansoma.com/singles/#1/6/2/0

How is that even possible?

The website only looks at cities, not at all areas where people live. Simple solution: singles in rural/suburban areas skew female.

Re: Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

#144

Post by a3n »

zeroxfe wrote: post #24
0x4f3759df wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone once made the same point about fitness, you used to have to roll down your windows manually, but now its automatic. More and more muscle functions being eliminated by automation. Add them all up and it makes a difference.

Now that many new cars are coming with have high-def wide-angle rear view cameras, I don't really need my neck muscles anymore. At some point we'll "evolve" to rocks... rocks with wifi.

"In The Year 2525," from the year 1969: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_the_Year_2525 (youtube link in "External" section is weak, try this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew01FGfOZdE)

Re: Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

#145

Post by hutzlibu »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #55
dghughes wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you 100% but I have an interesting personal anecdote, pretty much the opposite. When I was young I was very shy, painfully shy even into my early 20s. All social outings were family reunions or church. But I liked computers. So in the early 1990s I bought a computer and tried this thing called the Internet. By chance I discovered IRC. It was a world of strangers who interacted in real time. I could conve…

I don't think that is the opposite though. We've mostly burnt the bridge you used to get there. In the 90s BBS's, IRC and even ICQ had sites to connect people where people would list interests etc, people had ICQ or other icons on their home page to connect and just randomly chat. BBS's and interest groups would have meet ups and yearly BBQs etc. There was an openness, perhaps a little naivety, to connecting with str…

I would like to add games to the list of counterexamples. Still works today.

Even though I never made friends online (as I was not so into it) I know friends who did.

Re: Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

#146

Post by hutzlibu »

JoshMnem wrote: post #87
PeterStuer wrote: post #4

Another thing I wondered about is the impact of automation and volatility on, for lack of a better word 'involuntary' micro social interactions. Until fairly recently people had 'forced' social interactions when doing their finances, shopping etc. Even if involuntary they 'trained' people's social skills and withered away at their acquired/innate social anxiety. Furthermore, even in these situations the persons you i…

I have similar worries about AI. Example: I never let computer programs reply for me by clicking pre-written responses to emails or messages. The designers of those products are making the mistake that the less you have to think about things the better, but I think that you have to use your brain or you will lose it. Even those simple routine tasks (like talking to a bank teller for three minutes) provide essential c…

Maybe there are other things around worth thinking? I can think of plenty ... that keeps my brain from becomming a lazy pile of grey cells.

Re: Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

#147

Post by ddebernardy »

PeterStuer wrote: post #4

Another thing I wondered about is the impact of automation and volatility on, for lack of a better word 'involuntary' micro social interactions. Until fairly recently people had 'forced' social interactions when doing their finances, shopping etc. Even if involuntary they 'trained' people's social skills and withered away at their acquired/innate social anxiety. Furthermore, even in these situations the persons you i…

I agree with most of your points but part of this bit is incorrect:

> Even if involuntary they 'trained' people's social skills and withered away at their acquired/innate social anxiety.

Humans don't have a shred of innate social anxiety except perhaps in some odd pathological cases. Any parent who has dealt with a toddler that has yet to learn to talk will tell you that much. Toddlers who can't speak yet try very hard to interact with their parents and whoever else they meet. They've a fascinating ability to get themselves understood by their parents.

Science will tell you that much too. Humans are basically hardwired to communicate. Intensely. So much so that if you gather a bunch of deaf kids together without supervision they invent their own sign language. [0]

With that being said, kids do learn (or unlearn [1]) things at school. Including how to "socialize" (or not).

[0]: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/09/040920071439.h...

[1]: https://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_cre...

Re: Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

#148

Post by yorwba »

ronnier wrote: post #136
kuroguro wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that even possible?

Naturally there are more men born than women. I'd guess also more men than women migrate to the US for work. Men used to die in large number from war and work, not so anymore. So here we are.

Also young women dating older men. Just look at the excess of female singles at the upper end of the age range on that map.

Re: Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

#149

Post by dorchadas »

iamcasen wrote: post #119
sandworm101 wrote: post #105

Smartphone use is the symptom, not the cause of loneliness. Young people today are forbidden the tools used by past generations to counter loneliness. Ask an urban highschooler how often they just hung out at a friend's house, or in a public place, for more than an hour or two. Teenagers today are busy. They have homework and courses to do after school. They are supervised, chaperoned, by adults far more than previou…

This is an interesting hypothesis. I can definitely see this being true outside of major urban centers. Public transit seems to be the remedy for teenagers doesn't it? When I was a kid, my parents had to drive me everywhere, and I'm thankful they did! I would have had zero friends otherwise.

I'm from outside a major urban center, and I don't really see it being true. Yes, those things are gone, but cars are extremely common, and it's unusual that someone doesn't get one at 16, especially if they're the oldest sibling and can take the younger ones to school, etc. And even when people wreck, they're generally looking for new ones fairly quickly. And this is in a rural area with 20% of the population below the poverty line.

I do think smartphones are a lot of the problem. The kids have grown up not having to interact with anyone, so they rarely do. And they also don't know how, since they never had to learn. It's funny, as you can usually tell which students got their phones first from how they interact with other students.

And they still do hang out together a decent amount. Going to school sporting events, playing Fortnite at each other's houses, going out to eat, or even partying each weekend.

I see the loneliness issue creeping up more in the urban areas for the reasons listed above, actually. Or with those who grow up in an area and then leave it. Even if they come back, not all their friends will, and the people who stayed will have vastly different life experiences, which makes it difficult to make friends.

While I do see smartphones being an issue, as here kids don't really want to talk with each other but just be on their phones, even when "hanging out". That's what increases loneliness. Despite hanging out and doing stuff together, they're not interacting with each other nearly as much, nor on as deep a level.

Re: Loneliness is pervasive and rising, particularly among the young

#150

Post by tonyedgecombe »

bbrian wrote: post #121

The real culprit, IMO, is the automobile. By allowing people travel further, the frequency your life overlaps with other individuals' decreases exponentially. Relationships with strangers are much easier to start with familiarity. I'd like cities to be planned foremost with walkability in mind.

And hyper specialisation which forces many people away from home to find work.
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