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Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

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Re: Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

#281

Post by mirimir »

kragen wrote: post #227
chongli wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does competition deal with the network effects inherent to this type of service? I as a user don't want to watch my videos on a dozen different websites. I'll use the site with the videos that are most important to me and ignore the rest.

Whenever you use YouTube, you're already watching videos on dozens of different websites. YouTube is made up of thousands of servers, if not hundreds of thousands, spread all over the world. You just use a user interface that hides the difference from you. Similarly, whenever you use BitTorrent, the different pieces of your file come from dozens or hundreds of different machines, operated by different people, none of…

BitChute is a front end for P2P torrents. And then there's Hola and other streaming frontends for torrents.

Re: Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

#282

Post by mirimir »

Jerry2 wrote: post #37

I used to have a Youtube channel where I posted videos of me playing the piano. I played mostly Mozart, Beethoven and Rachmaninoff compositions. I had around 40 videos in total. Sometime around 2014, I started getting DMCA takedown notices from various companies claiming copyright. I was getting one or two per week and I contested them and things were ruled into my favor. But then it started getting harder and harder…

Maybe there are other mechanisms for revenge :)

Re: Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

#283

Post by chrismorgan »

jsgo wrote: post #195
chrismorgan wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the solution we came up with earlier this year: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16163984 Ten years of free protection, then costing $10 × 1.5 ⁿ ⁻ ¹ for each subsequent year. Year 10 costs $0, year 20 about $380, year 30 about $22,000, year 40 about $1,300,000, year 50 almost $75,000,000—and few fifty-year-old things will be worth $75,000,000 per year and growing to retain copyright to.

Since we're talking music, I'd probably want a hybrid. This for passive protection, but say auto-extension free of charge if the creator still trades on it. So Aerosmith who continues to do performances of their work would be able to say they're actively protecting it (and when that stops, the clock starts against the previously described mechanism) whereas Led Zeppelin, or whoever owns the rights to their works, wou…

Nah, keep it simple. The twentieth year is only up to $380, which is still chicken feed. Don’t add unnecessary complexity: make it simple enough that any layman can understand it completely.

Re: Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

#284

Post by mirimir »

digi_owl wrote: post #225
ocharles wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait what the hell - getting blocked on YouTube would stop you reading your GMail? Did I really read that correctly?

Yep. You do not have an account on each, you have a Google account that allows you to access all of google's services. And once it is closed, it is game over. Most people didn't notice this until G+ hit the net, and some kids used their gmail account (set up with parental knowledge and support) got closed because G+ found out they were under 13. Others have discovered that if their app on Google Play gets into troubl…

Yes. That's just one reason why I'll never use Gmail.

Re: Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

#285

Post by hegz »

mirimir wrote: post #282
Jerry2 wrote: post #37

I used to have a Youtube channel where I posted videos of me playing the piano. I played mostly Mozart, Beethoven and Rachmaninoff compositions. I had around 40 videos in total. Sometime around 2014, I started getting DMCA takedown notices from various companies claiming copyright. I was getting one or two per week and I contested them and things were ruled into my favor. But then it started getting harder and harder…

Maybe there are other mechanisms for revenge :)

Trolls tend to own nothing themselves so they can sling out legal threats all day and not get any in return.

Re: Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

#286

Post by graeme »

MereInterest wrote: post #192
graeme wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems a bit short for investment horizons was my point. And also, you’re perhaps thinking of patents, where the public eventually benefits from using an invention - lack of patent would mean more inventions are kept secret. Copyright is meant to be an incentive for the creation of works that otherwise would not be made. The public benefits by the fact that they’re created. They eventually get to use them too, but…

> Copyright is meant to be an incentive for the creation of works that otherwise would not be made. Copyright was there as an incentive for the release of works that would otherwise be kept hidden. As an example, playwrights were very secretive about the plays that they had written. Actors would only be given copies of their own lines, not the lines spoken by anyone else. Full copies of the script were never distribu…

Do you have any source for your claims? The first copyright act in the modern sense was the Statute of Anne in the UK in 1710. The purpose was “for the Encouragement of Learned Men to Compose and Write useful Books”. I included the full preamble below.

As for America, the reasoning on the continental congress on copyright was:

“that nothing is more properly a man's own than the fruit of his study, and that the protection and security of literary property would greatly tend to encourage genius and to promote useful discoveries.”

Again, nothing about releasing works to the public, and everything about promoting more publishing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_Anne

“Whereas Printers, Booksellers, and other Persons, have of late frequently taken the Liberty of Printing, Reprinting, and Publishing, or causing to be Printed, Reprinted, and Published Books, and other Writings, without the Consent of the Authors or Proprietors of such Books and Writings, to their very great Detriment, and too often to the Ruin of them and their Families: For Preventing therefore such Practices for the future, and for the Encouragement of Learned Men to Compose and Write useful Books; May it please Your Majesty, that it may be Enacted ...”

I got the continental congress quote from the history of copyright article on wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_copyright_law

Re: Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

#287

Post by hegz »

mooman219 wrote: post #262
Jerry2 wrote: post #37

I used to have a Youtube channel where I posted videos of me playing the piano. I played mostly Mozart, Beethoven and Rachmaninoff compositions. I had around 40 videos in total. Sometime around 2014, I started getting DMCA takedown notices from various companies claiming copyright. I was getting one or two per week and I contested them and things were ruled into my favor. But then it started getting harder and harder…

Ah that sounds like such a frustrating experience. It may be selection bias since I'm on HN a lot, but this sounds like a common situation. If you were a developer at YouTube, what do you think could be done to fix this? Personally, I think a starter is only suspending a user from the specific service they "violated" the TOS on instead of their who freaking account. I don't know how content-id works, but preventing d…

Google randomly locking out users seems to be pretty common. I have had them randomly lock me out of google docs files for "ToS violations" only to have the file unlock a few days later. Ever since that happened I stopped using google services to store my stuff.

Re: Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

#288

Post by mirimir »

hegz wrote: post #285
mirimir wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe there are other mechanisms for revenge :)

Trolls tend to own nothing themselves so they can sling out legal threats all day and not get any in return.

No infrastructure at all? No people to doxx?

Re: Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

#289

Post by mirimir »

Jerry2 wrote: post #60
dotancohen wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who was sending these notices? Sounds like perjury to me.

> Who was sending these notices? There's lots of them. The most notorious one I had to deal with was Adrev. There are reports of people getting notices from AdRev for videos that don't even have any music in them. [1] [1] https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/youtube/42xLe...

There's lots of information here: https://talent.adrev.net/about

Re: Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

#290

Post by nescoiquid »

cortesoft wrote: post #273
gnopgnip wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Advertisers, and not content creators or viewers are Youtube's real customer, and their policies align with that. The whole existence of a take down procedure separate from, and more favorable to the take down issuer is evidence of that

Wait, why would an aggressive takedown procedure be favorable for advertisers? Advertisers just want popular videos on which they can put their ads, they don't care if the content is copyrighted or not. Now, they probably care more about other types of censorship (for example, taking down offensive videos to avoid their brand being associated with them).

I think this is a good question. My suspicion is that the policy resulted from legal, rather than market forces. If that's true, then the fact that we the readers, viewers, listeners are the product sold to the advertisers is irrelevant.
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