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Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

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Re: Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

#221

Post by hfdgiutdryg »

cyphar wrote: post #139
hfdgiutdryg wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why HN seems to want everyone to be a wage slave. If I create original work, I want to profit off it for my life. Anything else is just punishing people who are creators rather than property owners.

Because: a) Almost all artists sign deals with publishers to "get their foot in the door" which end up giving all of the rights to the publisher, and so the artist ends up being a "wage slave" because they don't profit off the rights of the work they made. b) Locking away works for entire generations means that cultural artistic development is stifled. Shakespeare's works were based on previous works and stories, and…

a) not relevant, particularly in 2018 when self-publishing is becoming increasingly common.

b) I specifically said my lifetime. An average work might be covered for two generations. Not a big deal. If Shakespeare's work is so derivative, then I don't have a problem. 50 Shades of Gray started as Twilight fan-fiction. You can be derivative without being a mashup.

c) you're talking about publishers again, as if that's relevant.

As for this:

By your own admission, having lifetime copyright protections does not incentivise the creation of new works

I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth to form a low-quality argument. At no point did I ever say or imply anything of the sort!

Re: Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

#222

Post by ConceptJunkie »

zaarn wrote: post #51

Easy and stupid solution: Make it illegal to falsely claim copyright on a piece of media and additionally make transparent and fair processes around Notice&Takedown required for all larger platforms. Youtube's DMCA mechanism is a black box, you get told you did some bad and you can say "no I didn't do bad" at which point the black box will do things and after a few days agree or not. If someone files a copyright clai…

> Make it illegal to falsely claim copyright on a piece of media and additionally make transparent and fair processes around Notice&Takedown required for all larger platforms.

I wouldn't be surprised if those things are already illegal, but enforcing them turns out to be too hard. Laws you can't enforce are meaningless.

Re: Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

#223

Post by hfdgiutdryg »

_jal wrote: post #147
hfdgiutdryg wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why HN seems to want everyone to be a wage slave. If I create original work, I want to profit off it for my life. Anything else is just punishing people who are creators rather than property owners.

> I want to profit off it for my life Of course you do. Everyone wants free money. But look at the flip side - you want everyone else to accept an obligation to not do a a number of things with that work, and other people to enforce your rights, which is a claim on other people's time and money. So even if you believe there's some moral right to prevent others from doing things with some "intellectual property", you'…

Everyone wants free money.

It's not free money. It's passive income from intellectual property.

So even if you believe there's some moral right to prevent others from doing things with some "intellectual property"

It's a legal right. Morality has nothing to do with it, aside from your own attempt to baselessly undermine opposing arguments.

Actually, you're calling a failure to coerce others into to building legal regimes to your preferred specifications a 'punishment'.

Now you're just getting into "property is theft" and "taxation is violence" level nonsense. By your logic, why shouldn't I be able to just park an RV on your lawn and live there? Property rights are just some legal construct.

Re: Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

#224

Post by tree_of_item »

tekromancr wrote: post #129
adamc wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't see any reason to deny an author copyright during his or her lifetime. They wrote it. The public has no intrinsic right to take their stuff. In point of fact, some kinds of work depend on the longer payback period. Children's books, for example, don't usually earn so much initially, but successful ones can be dependable earners for a long time.

If we want to argue about intrinsic rights, though, you could also argue that there is no intrinsic right for an author of an intellectual work to have any ownership over it whatsoever once they share that idea with another person. The fact that they have legal ownership of a work is a societal construct, enforced by government, to incentivise the creations of said works for the sake of the public good. The notion of…

> capital-L Librarians

I didn't know they had a stake in this.

Re: Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

#225

Post by digi_owl »

ocharles wrote: post #214
Jerry2 wrote: post #37

I used to have a Youtube channel where I posted videos of me playing the piano. I played mostly Mozart, Beethoven and Rachmaninoff compositions. I had around 40 videos in total. Sometime around 2014, I started getting DMCA takedown notices from various companies claiming copyright. I was getting one or two per week and I contested them and things were ruled into my favor. But then it started getting harder and harder…

Wait what the hell - getting blocked on YouTube would stop you reading your GMail? Did I really read that correctly?

Yep. You do not have an account on each, you have a Google account that allows you to access all of google's services. And once it is closed, it is game over.

Most people didn't notice this until G+ hit the net, and some kids used their gmail account (set up with parental knowledge and support) got closed because G+ found out they were under 13.

Others have discovered that if their app on Google Play gets into trouble, bye bye gmail etc.

It is a downright hamfisted system, and likely an outcome of Google's drive to automate all the tings...

Re: Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

#226

Post by jacquesm »

lucb1e wrote: post #174
jacquesm wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of those people laying bricks are still around. Are you going to tell me they have no right to their own work anymore 20 years after they laid those bricks? After all they are still alive and kicking and people are still walking on those streets many years later. We 'knowledge workers' have it pretty easy compared to the people doing physical work. 30 years should be plenty for all media.

Oh god this just gave me the dystopian vision of companies offering streets as a service, where you pay for every cobblestone as you drive over it.

It's called a toll-road and France is full of them.

Re: Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

#227

Post by kragen »

chongli wrote: post #197
ConceptJunkie wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulation isn't the answer. Competition is the answer. So the question comes down to, is competition with YouTube possible? Or is Google a monopoly?

How does competition deal with the network effects inherent to this type of service? I as a user don't want to watch my videos on a dozen different websites. I'll use the site with the videos that are most important to me and ignore the rest.

Whenever you use YouTube, you're already watching videos on dozens of different websites. YouTube is made up of thousands of servers, if not hundreds of thousands, spread all over the world. You just use a user interface that hides the difference from you. Similarly, whenever you use BitTorrent, the different pieces of your file come from dozens or hundreds of different machines, operated by different people, none of whom have the ability to take the file down.

Re: Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

#228

Post by hfdgiutdryg »

ConceptJunkie wrote: post #219
hfdgiutdryg wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why HN seems to want everyone to be a wage slave. If I create original work, I want to profit off it for my life. Anything else is just punishing people who are creators rather than property owners.

I'm guessing you don't contribute to open source software then.

I don't. I would if I were at least paid to, but I focus on writing software for myself to generate income instead of generating some multiple of my salary for an employer.

There was an article on HN about an open source developer who is the sole maintainer of some complex, common tool (I can't recall what) who barely scrapes along. He's created many millions of dollars in value for others yet he can barely keep food on the table.

IMO, open source is great for consumers and middle-men, but takes advantage of and devalues software creators.

Re: Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

#229

Post by phyzome »

starsinspace wrote: post #191

So, does anyone have experience with other video websites, like Vimeo?

You can also just stick video on your own blog using tags. It's super easy these days! No Javascript libraries or Flash required.

Here's an example on my own site: https://www.brainonfire.net/blog/2018/03/23/oxalis-leaf-open...

And here's the source code:

  
    Video element not supported in your browser.
    Try this link! oxalis-160x.mp4
(The fallback content is totally optional, but a nice touch for curmudgeons like me who don't have A/V enabled in their main browser.)

Re: Can Beethoven send takedown requests?

#230

Post by chongli »

kragen wrote: post #227
chongli wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does competition deal with the network effects inherent to this type of service? I as a user don't want to watch my videos on a dozen different websites. I'll use the site with the videos that are most important to me and ignore the rest.

Whenever you use YouTube, you're already watching videos on dozens of different websites. YouTube is made up of thousands of servers, if not hundreds of thousands, spread all over the world. You just use a user interface that hides the difference from you. Similarly, whenever you use BitTorrent, the different pieces of your file come from dozens or hundreds of different machines, operated by different people, none of…

Yes, so this is ultimately a UI problem. What we need is not a monolithic website to compete with YouTube, what we need is a decentralized, federated 'video site' protocol.

Really, what we need is the web back. That is, the web as I remember it in the 90s, before Google came along, when groups of people who shared similar interests would link to each other and form webrings. [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webring

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