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Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

reuters.com

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Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#81

Post by onetimemanytime »

throwaway99990 wrote: post #12

I emigrated 15 years ago from there to the US. It's been fine, but I just visited Russia recently for a month and very much prefer Russian culture to that of the West. I'm thinking of going back permanently but probably won't. I think blocking various internet sites/services is the only way to preserve the cultural differences and stop the brain drain.

I just visited Russia recently for a month and very much prefer Russian culture to that of the West. I'm thinking of going back permanently but probably won't.

Oh, no you should go back and let us know a year later how life is under Pooty Poot.

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#82

Post by PeterMikhailov »

mbowcutt wrote: post #35

Might be a stupid question, but why is it always Telegram that gets talked about? Are other secure communications services like Signal, Keybase, etc already blocked?

> why is it always Telegram that gets talked about?

Telegram is in the news because the Russian government picks on them so much. Russian government concentrates on Telegram because it's popular with the generation of Russians born after the collapse of USSR.

Russians are the very best at memes, the memes get spread by Telegram.

Telegram has this concept of 'Channels', which are basically an easier to use Twitter.

A person makes a channel, a Telegram user can easily subscribe to it.

Many popular Russian politicians, entertainers and media figures have Telegram channels that are subscribed to by 10s of thousands of users.

I don't know how Telegram makes money, I cannot remember ever seeing an ad in Telegram.

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#83

Post by azangru »

frostburg wrote: post #76
azangru wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Telegram did something the government didn't like, so the government tried to ban it and failed. All of the mess this caused is entirely the fault of the Russian Government, because Telegram didn't make these changes. It is a very strange logic. Telegram did something that no longer was legal under the Russian law. Yes, it may be a stupid law, and yes, it may be very selectively applied, and yes, it is the governme…

You're exactly arguing from from a legalistic perspective.

I am alternating between two perspectives: one is that of an internet user who was caught in a fight between a company and an enforcement agency; the other is that of a disinterested observer.

This other position tells me that if we disregard for a moment that Telegram is a tech company championing privacy (and therefore a protagonist in most retellings of the story) and the Russian government is an embodiment of thuggishness (and therefore a likely villain of the piece) and just look at the situation as if it occurred elsewhere, we will see that Telegram might also have its share of blame in this story. It's as if a policeman ordered a suspect to freeze, but the suspect ran, and the policeman opened fire and wounded a bystander - well, it sure was the policeman who shot the gun, but is the fleeing suspect completely innocent of the situation? Would it be called victim blaming to suggest that he shares the blame for what happened? Can one be censured for saying that it would have been better if the suspect meekly obeyed the policeman?

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#84

Post by konart »

mbowcutt wrote: post #35

Might be a stupid question, but why is it always Telegram that gets talked about? Are other secure communications services like Signal, Keybase, etc already blocked?

Main reasons:

1) Telegram Channels has channels among other features. This is like streaming rss feeds right to your IM. Channels quickly became a most useful thing for media that is opposed to the regime or just shares the information that would be censored otherwise

2) Telegram has no censorship, the do not block those channels either

3) Their security might not be perfect, but it was enough for the said media to deliver information withough being caught in any way. Some of the media actually switched to Telegram Channels completely.

All of this (and some other minor things) goes agains the will of the regime obviously.

Not being able to see or hear what people say about you is on thing, they can deal with this like they did years ago. But they can't stand the fact that they can't controll the flow of systematized information.

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#85

Post by codedokode »

throwaway99990 wrote: post #12

I emigrated 15 years ago from there to the US. It's been fine, but I just visited Russia recently for a month and very much prefer Russian culture to that of the West. I'm thinking of going back permanently but probably won't. I think blocking various internet sites/services is the only way to preserve the cultural differences and stop the brain drain.

This is not related to cultural differences. The government just wants to read what people write about and block information they don't like. And I assume they have difficulties spying on opposition activists which happen to use Telegram too.

In Russia you can get prosecuted for reposting a meme on social network. Imagine how many "criminals" can be found if the police will be able to read private messages too.

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#86

Post by konart »

azangru wrote: post #33
vezycash wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telegram didn't break the internet. The government did.

No argument there. The government did. In response to Telegram's stance. I mean, we know that the government (the Russian government in particular, or the government in general) is evil. Do we want to unleash their evil upon ourselves, that's what I am asking.

>Do we want to unleash their evil upon ourselves, that's what I am asking.

Yes we, who are not slaves, do want this if this is what it takes to get freedom.

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#87

Post by codedokode »

hal9000xp wrote: post #36
ISL wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a reasonable chance that the throwaway poster intended to be divisive, whether as a troll or something more intentional.

The scary thing is that while living in Russia, I've encountered many people with similar views (face to face). I know it's hard to believe for western people but there are lots of people in Russia who completely obsessed with ideas of "unique Russian identity", "God chosen nation", "Russian world", "saint Russia vs. soulless American imperialism" etc. Putin understands feelings of this part of society and successful…

Doesn't Trump say the same things about USA? Also, I never heard about a "god chosen nation".

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#88

Post by konart »

hal9000xp wrote: post #9

In 2014-2015, I've spent great amount of energy to get out of Russia. Since I left Russia in 2015, the situation with internet freedom became much worse. Especially this year when Russia blocked millions and millions of IP-addresses in unsuccessful attempts to block Telegram. My prediction for near future is that Russia become as restrictive as China or even worse. I don't think VPN is viable long-term solution. Look…

> get out of Russia, run away as fast as possible from this goddamn place.

Not always on option. It's easy to leave when you have no family to take care of or parents, or other relatives with needs etc.

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#89

Post by traek »

ZoomZoomZoom wrote: post #55
rizzin wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the context of Russia, the company that made Telegram is headed by Pavel Durov, creator of the main Russian social network, vk.com. Don't know the exact history, but ultimately the social network ownership was transferred to a large IT corp, and Pavel Durov had some falling out with big wigs, and left Russia to create Telegram. He is a kind of a rebellious figure in modern Russia, and, as younger generation genera…

>> a lot of Russians use Telegram because of that. This is a big overstatement. Telegram received an initial traction from the vk.com userbase. It has very little to do with either the functionality (except may be the channels) or an ideological stance of he creators. VK simply advertised the messenger actively at launch. Practically all other IMs (except the earlier WhatsApp and Viber) have almost no userbase in Rus…

Any source on "VK simply advertised the messenger actively at launch"?

As far as I've heard VK and Telegram have never had a very cozy relationship, certainly never going as far as VK actively promoting Telegram.

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#90

Post by codedokode »

azangru wrote: post #49
SEJeff wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telegram did something the government didn't like, so the government tried to ban it and failed. All of the mess this caused is entirely the fault of the Russian Government, because Telegram didn't make these changes. I'd see thinking otherwise as a form of Victim Blaming: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_blaming

> Telegram did something the government didn't like, so the government tried to ban it and failed. All of the mess this caused is entirely the fault of the Russian Government, because Telegram didn't make these changes. It is a very strange logic. Telegram did something that no longer was legal under the Russian law. Yes, it may be a stupid law, and yes, it may be very selectively applied, and yes, it is the governme…

If Telegram did something illegal why should other Internet users suffer damages? Even the Russian law doesn't say that.

The blocking was not done according to the law. If the Government followed its own laws, there would be a lot of paperwork for every new blocked IP address and they would play cat-and-mouse game with Telegram spending a lot of resources while Telegram could cheaply create new proxies instead of blocked ones. Effectively you cannot block Telegram if you follow the law.

So the Government started blocking large networks (like, 256 000 IP addresses at once or even more) whenever it found a single Telegram proxy server there. This is obviously against the law but who cares.

If you think I am wrong please point to the article that allows blocking 20 millions random IP addresses.

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