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Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

reuters.com

41–50 of 111 posts

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#41
post #20

Didn't know you could do deep packet inspection on encrypted traffic? Anyone who can shed some light on how they might be doing this? I'm curious.

Encrypted protocols are often not fully encrypted, and expose enough to determine the nature of the traffic, if not the content. Even TLS, leaving Server Name Indication (SNI) unencrypted. Fortunately there is work underway to encrypt SNI. Also, in the TLS case, domain fronting (asking for e.g. google.com from the discriminated service, to fool filters) has become one tool to evade SNI-based attacks.

>domain fronting [...] has become one tool to evade SNI-based attacks.

Unfortunately, most major CDNs like Google and Amazon have stopped offering domain fronting capabilities. I think Azure is one of the major services that stills supports it however.

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#42

Might be a stupid question, but why is it always Telegram that gets talked about? Are other secure communications services like Signal, Keybase, etc already blocked?

I guess it's more to do with trends and mass adoption. Telegram is a lot more popular than Signal or Keybase, and in particular is more popular than WhatsApp in certain areas of the world. Telegram has also been very effectively marketed as a tool for political activism, so groups using it would be targets.

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#43
post #39
post #23

I am Russian, and I do not use Telegram, I and do not really know the technology that it relies on, so my opinion is probably worthless, but I can't get rid of the feeling that if Telegram just left the scene quietly and peacefully when the Russian authorities announced the ban, things would have been much simpler and yes, better. The authorities would have pretended that their mission had been accomplished. People w…

So it is Telegram's fault for what your Government did? I'm sorry you have to live under this, but I think it is maybe the Government's fault for doing those things.

> So it is Telegram's fault for what your Government did?

It is not Telegram's fault that the Russian government decided to ban it. This unfortunate decision is wholly on the government.

But it is not entirely clear to me whether it shares the blame for what happened next, namely for the collateral damage that occurred during their grand stand against the Russian government. I think it might actually be an interesting question worth pondering about.

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#44
post #40
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your captor is constantly looking for excuses to escalate things. There is nothing you can do to keep things the way they are.

It is a matter of belief, I suppose :-) One can believe in the reality where the captor is constantly thinking of how to provoke the captive and then destroy him, or in the reality where the captor is minding his own business until he is provoked. The Russia of the first decade of the 2000s rather resembled this second reality. Whether the reality has switched to the first one, I am not sure.

At this point it's not a belief, but a historical record. The whole thing started small with "protect the children" kind of bullshit. Then gradually and consistently escalated to gain more power.

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#45
post #43
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it is Telegram's fault for what your Government did? I'm sorry you have to live under this, but I think it is maybe the Government's fault for doing those things.

> So it is Telegram's fault for what your Government did? It is not Telegram's fault that the Russian government decided to ban it. This unfortunate decision is wholly on the government. But it is not entirely clear to me whether it shares the blame for what happened next, namely for the collateral damage that occurred during their grand stand against the Russian government. I think it might actually be an interestin…

Telegram did something the government didn't like, so the government tried to ban it and failed. All of the mess this caused is entirely the fault of the Russian Government, because Telegram didn't make these changes.

I'd see thinking otherwise as a form of Victim Blaming: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_blaming

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#46

Might be a stupid question, but why is it always Telegram that gets talked about? Are other secure communications services like Signal, Keybase, etc already blocked?

Signal or Keybase are not blocked in Russia. I suppose that is because they don't have many users like Telegram. WhatsApp is known to comply with Russian legislation (and ironically several of its addresses were accidentally blocked while trying to disrupt Telegram service).

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#47
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a reasonable chance that the throwaway poster intended to be divisive, whether as a troll or something more intentional.

The scary thing is that while living in Russia, I've encountered many people with similar views (face to face). I know it's hard to believe for western people but there are lots of people in Russia who completely obsessed with ideas of "unique Russian identity", "God chosen nation", "Russian world", "saint Russia vs. soulless American imperialism" etc. Putin understands feelings of this part of society and successful…

The solution, it would seem, is to help those who want to emigrate emigrate and let those who want to stay stay, and let the country slowly die on the vine.

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#48
Telegram invented a smart thing to evade blocking. They made a proxy server and allowed the person hosting it to add a promo link for every user connecting through this server. This way Telegram channel owners are motivated to host such proxy servers and distribute their addresses so that their channel gets promoted for users of this server (and they get more readers and more profit).

So even if hosting providers like Amazon or Google will refuse to work with Telegram (because they don't want to get blocked in Russia for this), it will be difficult to find and ban all people hosting proxy servers.

Sadly, these proxy servers can be used only for connecting to Telegram.

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#49
post #45
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So it is Telegram's fault for what your Government did? It is not Telegram's fault that the Russian government decided to ban it. This unfortunate decision is wholly on the government. But it is not entirely clear to me whether it shares the blame for what happened next, namely for the collateral damage that occurred during their grand stand against the Russian government. I think it might actually be an interestin…

Telegram did something the government didn't like, so the government tried to ban it and failed. All of the mess this caused is entirely the fault of the Russian Government, because Telegram didn't make these changes. I'd see thinking otherwise as a form of Victim Blaming: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_blaming

> Telegram did something the government didn't like, so the government tried to ban it and failed. All of the mess this caused is entirely the fault of the Russian Government, because Telegram didn't make these changes.

It is a very strange logic.

Telegram did something that no longer was legal under the Russian law. Yes, it may be a stupid law, and yes, it may be very selectively applied, and yes, it is the government that gets to write the law and thus define the rules of the game. I get all that, and I share the hatred towards the Russian government and its legal system.

Nevertheless, if we step aside and look at the situation disinterestedly, Telegram could no longer operate in Russia according to the laws of the land. So, according to the twisted Russian legal system, Telegram was in the wrong.

It could have just acknowledged the fact and stopped operating in Russia.

Instead its position was that it does not recognise the Russian ruling and will keep operating in the country where it officially was no longer welcome.

The Russian authorities tried to enforce the law, but due to the lack of either grace or expertise made a mess out of it.

Look, I am not arguing from a legalistic perspective. I do not worship the law, nor do I tell others to respect it. I would break it as likely as the next guy if I could get away with it. But what I am saying is that the Russian authorities were within their right.

As for victim blaming, you would have been correct if we were discussing Telegram as the victim. But in my analysis, the victims are the public who had to endure broken internet, because a company and an enforcement agency were both making a point.

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#50
post #41
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Encrypted protocols are often not fully encrypted, and expose enough to determine the nature of the traffic, if not the content. Even TLS, leaving Server Name Indication (SNI) unencrypted. Fortunately there is work underway to encrypt SNI. Also, in the TLS case, domain fronting (asking for e.g. google.com from the discriminated service, to fool filters) has become one tool to evade SNI-based attacks.

>domain fronting [...] has become one tool to evade SNI-based attacks. Unfortunately, most major CDNs like Google and Amazon have stopped offering domain fronting capabilities. I think Azure is one of the major services that stills supports it however.

If they would not stop this they could be blocked in Russia completely (because Russian authorities started banning whole networks where Telegram servers or proxies were found).
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