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Total Recall: LeBron's mighty mind (2014)

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Re: Total Recall: LeBron's mighty mind (2014)

#21

Post by throwawaymath »

jl2718 wrote: post #14
William1000 wrote: post #2

His memory has always been laughably impressive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNVJFRl6f6s

I’ve noticed a strong tendency toward eidetic memory in people that started in their professions without going to college. Very common in enlisted military, for instance. I think it might actually be quite natural. Education, I think, overloads a person with all of this useless stuff to make them ‘well-rounded’ and they lose their ability to focus on the details.

The other commenter's reply is a tad aggressively stated but I agree with it. I think your conclusion is probably skewed by survivorship bias. When I began my career I didn't have any college experience and I have a fairly exceptional working and long term memory (as measured by an IQ test and other peoples' remarks on my work). As an example, I can typically recite most lines of dialogue from a TV show verbatim in order after watching the episode once. That does come in handy for professional work. However, I happen to know many people without any college education, and most do not have a particularly good memory; they don't have a particularly bad memory either, just sort of middling.

So trading one set of anecdotes for another: I don't see support for your hypothesis. I think it's plausible that professionally successful people without college education tend to have a better memory, perhaps because they need to in order to compensate for lack of formal education. But even that is unsubstantiated. We probably can't draw any meaningful inferences from the n = 1 example of one of the most successful basketball players of all time. Many of Lebron James' qualities - both mental and physical - are likely several sigma from the mean.

Re: Total Recall: LeBron's mighty mind (2014)

#22

Post by prmph »

maxxxxx wrote: post #19
William1000 wrote: post #2

His memory has always been laughably impressive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNVJFRl6f6s

I have heard the same about the top Formula One Drivers. After the race they can recall almost every turn of the race in detail with their engineers. It takes hours to get all the information across. It makes sense that a good memory is big asset for an athlete. It allows them to replay a situation and learn from it. When I did martial arts my memory of a fight was pretty vague so I couldn't analyze and learn much.

I've noticed this ability as well in other fields: it seems those at the very top (chess grandmasters, piano virtuosos, etc) have an incredible ability to remember the details of performances in their field. The question is: is it their existing recall abilities that (in part) helps them to get to the top, or is it the process of becoming that good that greatly enhances their memory?

Re: Total Recall: LeBron's mighty mind (2014)

#23

Post by vertline3 »

beebmam wrote: post #12
William1000 wrote: post #2

His memory has always been laughably impressive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNVJFRl6f6s

Wow, this IS truly incredible. This reminds me of how many chess grandmasters can easily recall and recite and visualize every move in a game from years past. I think James deserves a little more credit than just being on par with chess GMs: to memorize something so complex as a basketball game without even attempting to commit it to memory speaks to his extraordinary intelligence.

Steve Kerr said it's common for players at the top, said Draymond was the same way. I imagine Jordan as well.

Did LeBron’s memory of the fourth quarter surprise you?

Kerr: “Not for a great player. I think great players remember everything. It’s like a quarterback.”

Your guys do?

Kerr: “Yeah. Not all of them [laughs]. Draymond would be the same way.

“We’ll be watching tape of a game from, we played Houston in December or something, and guys will be like, ‘Oh yeah, I remember that. This is what happened next.’

“So I don’t think it’s that rare. But the best players generally remember the most and have the sharpest memories.

Re: Total Recall: LeBron's mighty mind (2014)

#24

Post by maxxxxx »

prmph wrote: post #22
maxxxxx wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have heard the same about the top Formula One Drivers. After the race they can recall almost every turn of the race in detail with their engineers. It takes hours to get all the information across. It makes sense that a good memory is big asset for an athlete. It allows them to replay a situation and learn from it. When I did martial arts my memory of a fight was pretty vague so I couldn't analyze and learn much.

I've noticed this ability as well in other fields: it seems those at the very top (chess grandmasters, piano virtuosos, etc) have an incredible ability to remember the details of performances in their field. The question is: is it their existing recall abilities that (in part) helps them to get to the top, or is it the process of becoming that good that greatly enhances their memory?

I wonder if it's a function of being able to focus.

Re: Total Recall: LeBron's mighty mind (2014)

#25

Post by philwelch »

ssharp wrote: post #8
wallflower wrote: post #3

LeBron James is arguably the greatest player of his modern era (Wilt Chamberlain did not have as much competition), if not all time. Yes, he has tremendous physical gifts and dexterity. What most people don't know is he has an almost uncanny eidetic memory that allows him to truly know how the other players on a team have played against him or his team in the past without studying game video ipso facto... and also wh…

Besides his physical and mental talents, he's also an incredibly dedicated worker and has also embraced a lot of innovative playing, training and recovery ideas that has helped him extend his peak physical years beyond where they normally are. One of the surprising things I heard about last year was that the newer basketball cameras that record all aspects of play rated him as one of (maybe even the) slowest players…

LeBron also has very healthy body mechanics, which is an underrated part of durability. The difference between more durable and less durable players isn’t only down to conditioning and training and genetics; an NBA player jumps and lands, cuts and stops, and generally subjects his body to the limits of what it can withstand. Constantly and repeatedly doing that in biomechanically vulnerable ways (bracing the knees inward, trying to stick one-footed landings, landing on the heels, letting the knees translate in front of the toes) will absolutely wear down and break any player.

Re: Total Recall: LeBron's mighty mind (2014)

#26

Post by loblollyboy »

prmph wrote: post #22
maxxxxx wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have heard the same about the top Formula One Drivers. After the race they can recall almost every turn of the race in detail with their engineers. It takes hours to get all the information across. It makes sense that a good memory is big asset for an athlete. It allows them to replay a situation and learn from it. When I did martial arts my memory of a fight was pretty vague so I couldn't analyze and learn much.

I've noticed this ability as well in other fields: it seems those at the very top (chess grandmasters, piano virtuosos, etc) have an incredible ability to remember the details of performances in their field. The question is: is it their existing recall abilities that (in part) helps them to get to the top, or is it the process of becoming that good that greatly enhances their memory?

Yup - here is a cool one about how baseball players scan things with their eyes https://source.wustl.edu/2006/08/st-louis-cardinals-slugger-...

Re: Total Recall: LeBron's mighty mind (2014)

#27

Post by fenomas »

beebmam wrote: post #12
William1000 wrote: post #2

His memory has always been laughably impressive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNVJFRl6f6s

Wow, this IS truly incredible. This reminds me of how many chess grandmasters can easily recall and recite and visualize every move in a game from years past. I think James deserves a little more credit than just being on par with chess GMs: to memorize something so complex as a basketball game without even attempting to commit it to memory speaks to his extraordinary intelligence.

You probably already know this, but of course the companion trivia there is that chess masters' incredible recall for board positions only works for realistic layouts - when tested on randomly placed pieces, masters apparently remember them no better than beginners.

If basketball is analogous, one could suppose that (A) there may not be anything special about LeBron's memory per se - e.g. he might remember the plays in a cricket match as poorly as anyone else - and (B) it argues that on the court LeBron is thinking out the game, and the implications of each exchange, in a way comparable to how chess masters think out moves (and he probably puts similar mental effort into the other pursuits the article describes).

Re: Total Recall: LeBron's mighty mind (2014)

#28

Post by curuinor »

jl2718 wrote: post #13

First-off, I think this is interesting because athletes have hit the point of diminishing returns on physical abilities, and now the games are turning mental in every sport. The NBA has done a great job at turning strategy into a spectator sport. In the NFL, the possibly single worst athlete in the quarterback position is the best ever. They are changing too. I’m not sure MLB can adapt. I wonder whether this doesn’t…

There are no games where the top physical specimens are without exception the best in the sport. The mind is without exception of fundamental exception to every sport, no matter what.

On the converse, esports also has fundamental physical characteristics: reaction time and ability to put out apm, for examples.

Re: Total Recall: LeBron's mighty mind (2014)

#29

Post by socrates1998 »

Impressive, no doubt. This type of memory happens more often than people realize to athletes and coaches.

Pattern recognition in competitive sports is extremely valuable.

Lebron is one of the all time greats because he combines such unique gifts, his memory, his work ethic, his physicality, size and quickness.

He is just a freak all the way around.

His basketball IQ has some interesting affects on teams he plays though. He has problems submitting and listening to his coaches. Often because he thinks he is right, which he often is.

Still, there can be only one person making decisions and Lebron does not like to give up his power.

This is ultimately what caused him to leave Miami. He was the 4th most important person in the organization behind the owner, the GM Pat Riley, the head coach and the homegrown star (Dwayne Wade).

When he went back to Cleveland, he went to an organization that he could dominate from top to bottom.

I think his desire for influence and power has hurt his career to a certain extent.

If he had gone to San Antonio, for example, he might have had several more titles by now.

I don't see the Lakers winning one in the few years, so Lebron will probably end his career with 3.

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