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Convincing engineers to join your team

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Re: Convincing engineers to join your team

#31

Post by slivym »

ashelmire wrote: post #19

What's with the standard of doing a full day interview? Who does this work for other than fresh graduates? I don't want to spend a whole day (which I have to request off from my current employer) answering probably-silly technical puzzles as the first round interview (the 25 minute phone call doesn't really count since it sounds like just a pitch). Does a full day of whiteboarding really get you better candidates tha…

Our full day interviews aren't so that you can do lot's of different tests, it's so that you can meet and discuss things with the entire team you're working with. It might seem silly that you're being asked a toy problem 4 different times, but each of those times you're talking to a different person and getting to know them.

Re: Convincing engineers to join your team

#32

Post by expertentipp »

You are not Facebook, you are not Google, you are not Apple. You will never be any of these. They have piles of cash and can afford almost anything, they have unimaginable datasets about private lifes of billions of people. Stop using the same practices as them, stop using the same frameworks and stacks as them, even reconsider using technologies produced by them.

Re: Convincing engineers to join your team

#33

Post by wolco »

opportune wrote: post #27
ashelmire wrote: post #19

What's with the standard of doing a full day interview? Who does this work for other than fresh graduates? I don't want to spend a whole day (which I have to request off from my current employer) answering probably-silly technical puzzles as the first round interview (the 25 minute phone call doesn't really count since it sounds like just a pitch). Does a full day of whiteboarding really get you better candidates tha…

Nothing wrong with spending all day interviewing if you think you have a strong chance of the interview resulting in tens of thousands of dollars in raise/bonus/etc. Yeah, an actual full day of interviewing is probably more than necessary, but you need to have a strong signal of your ability. I think most technical recruiting at good companies is more about avoiding the possibility of hiring someone who is bad than t…

It's foolish because the process elimates the best candidates.

Re: Convincing engineers to join your team

#34

Post by wolco »

slivym wrote: post #31
ashelmire wrote: post #19

What's with the standard of doing a full day interview? Who does this work for other than fresh graduates? I don't want to spend a whole day (which I have to request off from my current employer) answering probably-silly technical puzzles as the first round interview (the 25 minute phone call doesn't really count since it sounds like just a pitch). Does a full day of whiteboarding really get you better candidates tha…

Our full day interviews aren't so that you can do lot's of different tests, it's so that you can meet and discuss things with the entire team you're working with. It might seem silly that you're being asked a toy problem 4 different times, but each of those times you're talking to a different person and getting to know them.

Why would a serious candidate waste the entire day? The candidates that stay may be the disparate ones.

Re: Convincing engineers to join your team

#35

Post by jonny_eh »

wolco wrote: post #34
slivym wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our full day interviews aren't so that you can do lot's of different tests, it's so that you can meet and discuss things with the entire team you're working with. It might seem silly that you're being asked a toy problem 4 different times, but each of those times you're talking to a different person and getting to know them.

Why would a serious candidate waste the entire day? The candidates that stay may be the disparate ones.

I consider myself a strong engineer and I've only ever done full day interviews, at least for companies bigger than 30 people. What am I doing wrong?

Re: Convincing engineers to join your team

#36

Post by jonny_eh »

laurentMiguel wrote: post #12
chadash wrote: post #3

During the recruiting process, I expect a company to be putting its best foot forward. If things seem disorganized at that stage, then I assume that day-to-day operations at the company are even more disorganized. Additionally, it always makes a big difference to me if people high up in the organization (even if they aren't technical) are involved in the interview process. If a founder or C-level employee spends some…

Honestly, the interview process is no guarantee of anything behind door number one. I've learned that the hard way. If a company is putting their best foot forward, and they've contrived an act, but can't back it up? What then? There's no accounting for willful deception, and sometimes you are straight lied to.

Exactly, I've seen the same with sales. Some companies put all their effort into sales and marketing, but the product turns out to be crap.

Re: Convincing engineers to join your team

#37

Post by opportune »

wolco wrote: post #33
opportune wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing wrong with spending all day interviewing if you think you have a strong chance of the interview resulting in tens of thousands of dollars in raise/bonus/etc. Yeah, an actual full day of interviewing is probably more than necessary, but you need to have a strong signal of your ability. I think most technical recruiting at good companies is more about avoiding the possibility of hiring someone who is bad than t…

It's foolish because the process elimates the best candidates.

Yeah if you created a hugely popular and successful framework, or are a technical fellow at Google, you don’t even need an interview. But for slightly lower bars of “best” I think you would be surprised just at how bad many people even with decent credentials can be.

I just can’t envision a scenario where a company is one I’m interested in working in (good pay, good work, good culture) and where I’m not willing to try to work there due to a one day interview, no matter how good I am. I’m by no means “the best” but I would only go through the process of changing employers/possibly even moving if tens/hundreds of thousands of dollars were at stake, and a day is not much time to spend for that.

Re: Convincing engineers to join your team

#38

Post by wolco »

dfabulich wrote: post #25
ashelmire wrote: post #19

What's with the standard of doing a full day interview? Who does this work for other than fresh graduates? I don't want to spend a whole day (which I have to request off from my current employer) answering probably-silly technical puzzles as the first round interview (the 25 minute phone call doesn't really count since it sounds like just a pitch). Does a full day of whiteboarding really get you better candidates tha…

A full day interview is standard. You grant that it's standard, right in the first sentence of your post. But you'll tell anyone who offers you a standard interview to take a hike? This is symptomatic of a broader problem with HN comment threads on "how to interview" articles: for any given approach to interviewing, the top comment will be a middle-brow dismissal saying, "I would never interview at a place that inter…

It's simple, do a quick interview and hire. Use experience, some technical questions or white boarding. That's how it was done previous to this decade.

Re: Convincing engineers to join your team

#39

Post by jiveturkey »

ashelmire wrote: post #19

What's with the standard of doing a full day interview? Who does this work for other than fresh graduates? I don't want to spend a whole day (which I have to request off from my current employer) answering probably-silly technical puzzles as the first round interview (the 25 minute phone call doesn't really count since it sounds like just a pitch). Does a full day of whiteboarding really get you better candidates tha…

Wow, well the feeling is mutual, I wouldn't want to hire you! :)

A day is nothing for someone looking to leave a current position. Take a day off of work, what's the problem? Seriously. You're leaving anyway.

And then it's not like you can't just walk out on the interview at any time (say after the 2nd silly whiteboarding session) if you feel they are wasting your time.

The most important part of interviewing is the candidate's evaluation of the company. More time spent, and more people to talk to, is a fine tradeoff for a day of your time.

As a candidate, I don't really care what the company thinks they are getting out of a full day interview. I want this for my own reasons.

Re: Convincing engineers to join your team

#40

Post by TuringNYC »

ashelmire wrote: post #19

What's with the standard of doing a full day interview? Who does this work for other than fresh graduates? I don't want to spend a whole day (which I have to request off from my current employer) answering probably-silly technical puzzles as the first round interview (the 25 minute phone call doesn't really count since it sounds like just a pitch). Does a full day of whiteboarding really get you better candidates tha…

Keep in mind you are interviewing the potential employer, boss, supervisor, and potential fellow employees as much as they are interviewing you. I welcome any chance to meet (and evaluate) everyone I can on the other side -- are these people who are pleasant, smart, ambitious, have potential, I can help, can help me, etc.
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