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John Coltrane and the End of Jazz

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Re: John Coltrane and the End of Jazz

#11

Post by Finnucane »

eerwrq wrote: post #3

This guy doesn't know what he's talking about. - Jazz didn't begin to die on Kind of Blue. That was a popular, well selling jazz record. Rather than setting Jazz on a path to irrelevance, Kind of Blue reinvigorated the genre and inspired an abundance of accessible and innovative material in the years following its release. - Alice Coltrane is not the "Yoko Ono" of Jazz. She made a lot of good records. And Yoko Ono is…

> Alice Coltrane is not the "Yoko Ono" of Jazz

Yeah, that was uncalled for. Journey in Satchidananda and Ptah the El Daoud are excellent albums.

Re: John Coltrane and the End of Jazz

#13

Post by Finnucane »

chalkandpaste wrote: post #7
eerwrq wrote: post #3

This guy doesn't know what he's talking about. - Jazz didn't begin to die on Kind of Blue. That was a popular, well selling jazz record. Rather than setting Jazz on a path to irrelevance, Kind of Blue reinvigorated the genre and inspired an abundance of accessible and innovative material in the years following its release. - Alice Coltrane is not the "Yoko Ono" of Jazz. She made a lot of good records. And Yoko Ono is…

Yes, he sure doesn't know a d n thing about jazz... Alice and Joe Henderson were doing great stuff in the 70's together too. Beyond the chaos of the late 60's era in jazz, there are a lot of new directions jazz has taken since then. Jazz doesn't stand still, and I think that is core to it's nature. If this guy was looking to continue second wave bop for all eternity, he should just throw on some Branford/Wynton Marsa…

I think the thing you could say about Coltrane was the he was the last musician who could change the shape of the whole genre, the way Armstrong and Parker did. After Coltrane it was fractured, and it was Coltrane who did the fracturing.

Re: John Coltrane and the End of Jazz

#15

Post by mtalantikite »

Finnucane wrote: post #11
eerwrq wrote: post #3

This guy doesn't know what he's talking about. - Jazz didn't begin to die on Kind of Blue. That was a popular, well selling jazz record. Rather than setting Jazz on a path to irrelevance, Kind of Blue reinvigorated the genre and inspired an abundance of accessible and innovative material in the years following its release. - Alice Coltrane is not the "Yoko Ono" of Jazz. She made a lot of good records. And Yoko Ono is…

> Alice Coltrane is not the "Yoko Ono" of Jazz Yeah, that was uncalled for. Journey in Satchidananda and Ptah the El Daoud are excellent albums.

Yeah he lost me with that comment. Journey in Satchidananda is my favorite record, period. It was one of many records that changed my life as a young teenager, and of all of those albums it’s still the one that surprises me most every time I listen to it 18 years later.

Re: John Coltrane and the End of Jazz

#16

Post by icebraining »

emodendroket wrote: post #5

I don't really get the thesis. He ruined jazz? Or he took it as far as it could go? I think Ayler is probably more atonal and challenging than A Love Supreme, for instance. And jazz lives on in both more traditional forms and in the more popular "smooth jazz." Ultimately I can't play music so I can't really speak to the author's argument that I'm cowed by being impressed and don't know what I'm talking about. But I e…

I think it's the latter - Coltrane exhausted jazz. That's my reading, anyway.

Re: John Coltrane and the End of Jazz

#18

Post by kop316 »

pnathan wrote: post #9

> The fact that this 55-year-old recording is the year’s most significant jazz release tells you all you need to know about the health of jazz in 2018. Writer has a point. As much as I like jazz, it's ossified badly as a genre. Love to see some forward motion that isn't free jazz or other noise.

As a counter point, imagine if the Beatles, Jimi Hendrix, Tupac, Notorious BIG, etc. had an unreleased album and it was released this year. If that happened, I would guarantee that the same thing that happened with Coltrane's Album would have the same thing. Does that mean Rock, Hip-Hop, Rap is dead?

I do think jazz as a genre has an issue, but it is a much different issue. Personally, I think Jazz is way to inbred, and most Jazz artists only play to other jazz artists, and most like to keep it a niche genre.

Re: John Coltrane and the End of Jazz

#19

Post by andybak »

pnathan wrote: post #9

> The fact that this 55-year-old recording is the year’s most significant jazz release tells you all you need to know about the health of jazz in 2018. Writer has a point. As much as I like jazz, it's ossified badly as a genre. Love to see some forward motion that isn't free jazz or other noise.

> Love to see some forward motion that isn't free jazz or other noise.

I'm not a full-on jazz devotee and even I've heard stuff in the last decade that is neither "noise" nor retro-nostalgia.

Is it possible you haven't looked very hard?

Re: John Coltrane and the End of Jazz

#20

Post by emodendroket »

skybrian wrote: post #12

It seems a bit weird to use the word "death" or "end" for music that's still being played by musicians and discovered by new listeners.

It's no longer very commercially popular -- there is no jazz radio station in the US that isn't smooth jazz and jazz albums represent like 1% of sales. In that sense you could call it "dead," but I'm not sure commercial success is the right metric for art music.
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