John Coltrane and the End of Jazz
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John Coltrane and the End of Jazz
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Re: John Coltrane and the End of Jazz
#2My obligatory Coltrane comment. I actually didn't hear any Coltrane or even jazz at least a decade into seriously learning/practicing music. My first introduction to legato-based guitar playing was Allan Holdsworth, who used to play these beautiful monstrous never-ending buttery lines with luscious and unusual chords in harmony. I spent a while imitating that style of playing. Holdsworth had put some really great instructional material and in one interview he mentions how he never really wanted to play the guitar, but he couldn't really afford a saxophone to play like Coltrane.
It's kinda funny because Coltrane and Holdsworth are possibly at the opposite end of a spectrum when it comes to the way they approach harmony and rhythm, and while they play completely different instruments(one being a sax and the other being an electric guitar) their melodic lines through heavy legato use might as well be played by the same person.
I think I'll go listen to 'A Love Supreme' now, followed by Holdsworth's 'Secrets'.
Re: John Coltrane and the End of Jazz
#3This guy doesn't know what he's talking about.
- Jazz didn't begin to die on Kind of Blue. That was a popular, well selling jazz record. Rather than setting Jazz on a path to irrelevance, Kind of Blue reinvigorated the genre and inspired an abundance of accessible and innovative material in the years following its release.
- Alice Coltrane is not the "Yoko Ono" of Jazz. She made a lot of good records. And Yoko Ono isn't bad for that matter. I like her solo music better than John's.
- Many people besides music critics and academics enjoy Coltrane's late period. Some of us like abrasive, chaotic music.
Re: John Coltrane and the End of Jazz
#4I guess whether you think jazz is dead is partly dependent on how far you're willing to stretch what you count as jazz--which, I suppose, is the problem--jazz has become so diffuse. A lot of the more recent stuff I listen to is on John Zorn's Tzadik label, which leans toward the avant-garde and 'radical jewish culture' thing. So it's already pretty tangential, jazz-wise.
But I still remember the first time I listened to a Coltrane album, I think it was Live at the Village Vanguard, and it was like a third eye opening in my head.
Re: John Coltrane and the End of Jazz
#5I don't really get the thesis. He ruined jazz? Or he took it as far as it could go? I think Ayler is probably more atonal and challenging than A Love Supreme, for instance. And jazz lives on in both more traditional forms and in the more popular "smooth jazz."
Ultimately I can't play music so I can't really speak to the author's argument that I'm cowed by being impressed and don't know what I'm talking about. But I enjoy listening to experimental jazz. A Love Supreme was the album that made me start enjoying jazz.
Re: John Coltrane and the End of Jazz
#6This guy doesn't know what he's talking about. - Jazz didn't begin to die on Kind of Blue. That was a popular, well selling jazz record. Rather than setting Jazz on a path to irrelevance, Kind of Blue reinvigorated the genre and inspired an abundance of accessible and innovative material in the years following its release. - Alice Coltrane is not the "Yoko Ono" of Jazz. She made a lot of good records. And Yoko Ono is…
Definitely agree about the Alice Coltrane part. She's great. Now I'm not into Yoko's material but one could argue that her work has artistic merit other than just musical ones...
Re: John Coltrane and the End of Jazz
#7This guy doesn't know what he's talking about. - Jazz didn't begin to die on Kind of Blue. That was a popular, well selling jazz record. Rather than setting Jazz on a path to irrelevance, Kind of Blue reinvigorated the genre and inspired an abundance of accessible and innovative material in the years following its release. - Alice Coltrane is not the "Yoko Ono" of Jazz. She made a lot of good records. And Yoko Ono is…
Yes, he sure doesn't know a dn thing about jazz...
Alice and Joe Henderson were doing great stuff in the 70's together too.
Beyond the chaos of the late 60's era in jazz, there are a lot of new directions jazz has taken since then. Jazz doesn't stand still, and I think that is core to it's nature. If this guy was looking to continue second wave bop for all eternity, he should just throw on some Branford/Wynton Marsalis and pretend like the 60's never happened.
Re: John Coltrane and the End of Jazz
#8I guess whether you think jazz is dead is partly dependent on how far you're willing to stretch what you count as jazz--which, I suppose, is the problem--jazz has become so diffuse. A lot of the more recent stuff I listen to is on John Zorn's Tzadik label, which leans toward the avant-garde and 'radical jewish culture' thing. So it's already pretty tangential, jazz-wise. But I still remember the first time I listened…
I mean, Wynton Marsalis and those kind of players are around if all you consider jazz is the most classic kind.
Re: John Coltrane and the End of Jazz
#9> The fact that this 55-year-old recording is the year’s most significant jazz release tells you all you need to know about the health of jazz in 2018.
Writer has a point. As much as I like jazz, it's ossified badly as a genre. Love to see some forward motion that isn't free jazz or other noise.
Re: John Coltrane and the End of Jazz
#10A Love Supreme is still my favorite Coltrane album. But, I wanted to say that I can listen to Eric Dolphy (briefly mentioned here) on anything. Out to Lunch!, Andrew Hill's Point of Departure, and Mingusx5 are the places I'd start.