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Miami Will Be Underwater Soon. Its Drinking Water Could Go First

bloomberg.com

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Re: Miami Will Be Underwater Soon. Its Drinking Water Could Go First

#171

Post by calcifer »

skh wrote: post #102
fabricexpert wrote: post #80

This article is kind of infuriating. Just bring the facts up and talk about them, instead of describing people. I think this is one of the more critical parts (along with the stuff about water supply getting contaminated): > Barring a stupendous reversal in greenhouse gas emissions, the rising Atlantic will cover much of Miami by the end of this century. The economic effects will be devastating: Zillow Inc. estimates…

At this point in time people who deny climate change is occurring are impervious to logic and reason. They are like people who deny evolution or the people who believe the Earth is around 10,000 years old. Nothing is going to convince them they are wrong. It's too burdensome to ask that all articles about the detrimental effects of climate change present a proof of said claims. At some point in time it's pointless to…

Honestly, the fact that your comment is downvoted speaks volumes about the audience here. The people who deny climate change are no different than antivaxxers.

Re: Miami Will Be Underwater Soon. Its Drinking Water Could Go First

#172

Post by artpepper2 »

igravious wrote: post #130
beat wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article isn't saying Miami will be underwater soon. It's saying that Miami's water supply is at risk, partly due to rising sea levels, partly due to human activity damaging the aquifer (limestone mining, toxic waste). Moreover, six feet of sea level rise isn't going to happen instantaneously. It will take decades. Property will slowly be lost, but people will just move inland (or move away). And a key question is…

> The article isn't saying Miami will be underwater soon. I beg to differ, it's the first sentence of the title of the article: “Miami Will Be Underwater Soon. […]” Then there's, “Barring a stupendous reversal in greenhouse gas emissions, the rising Atlantic will cover much of Miami by the end of this century. The economic effects will be devastating: Zillow Inc. estimates that six feet of sea-level rise would put a…

> Maybe we should replace them by people who are able to problem solve in the face of adversity.

One of our political parties has been paid to ensure that doesn't happen.

Re: Miami Will Be Underwater Soon. Its Drinking Water Could Go First

#173

Post by beat »

alex_anglin wrote: post #108
beat wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article isn't saying Miami will be underwater soon. It's saying that Miami's water supply is at risk, partly due to rising sea levels, partly due to human activity damaging the aquifer (limestone mining, toxic waste). Moreover, six feet of sea level rise isn't going to happen instantaneously. It will take decades. Property will slowly be lost, but people will just move inland (or move away). And a key question is…

Sea walls won’t work for Miami. The ground is too porous, so the water would just seep under.

Yeah, I was thinking of that, but didn't want to extend the post.

Re: Miami Will Be Underwater Soon. Its Drinking Water Could Go First

#174

Post by irrational »

fabricexpert wrote: post #80

This article is kind of infuriating. Just bring the facts up and talk about them, instead of describing people. I think this is one of the more critical parts (along with the stuff about water supply getting contaminated): > Barring a stupendous reversal in greenhouse gas emissions, the rising Atlantic will cover much of Miami by the end of this century. The economic effects will be devastating: Zillow Inc. estimates…

> Would a giant sea wall work?

No. Miami (and pretty much all of South Florida) sits on top of a sand bar on top of porous limestone rock. The ocean will just come up through the limestone rock and through the sand no matter how tall your sea wall is.

Re: Miami Will Be Underwater Soon. Its Drinking Water Could Go First

#175

Post by selimthegrim »

beat wrote: post #97
fabricexpert wrote: post #80

This article is kind of infuriating. Just bring the facts up and talk about them, instead of describing people. I think this is one of the more critical parts (along with the stuff about water supply getting contaminated): > Barring a stupendous reversal in greenhouse gas emissions, the rising Atlantic will cover much of Miami by the end of this century. The economic effects will be devastating: Zillow Inc. estimates…

The article isn't saying Miami will be underwater soon. It's saying that Miami's water supply is at risk, partly due to rising sea levels, partly due to human activity damaging the aquifer (limestone mining, toxic waste). Moreover, six feet of sea level rise isn't going to happen instantaneously. It will take decades. Property will slowly be lost, but people will just move inland (or move away). And a key question is…

Just like those guys in Casablanca will always have Paris, I tell people when I compare Miami and New Orleans that the latter will at least always have drinking water, even if it is reduced to the French Quarter and Algiers Point.

Re: Miami Will Be Underwater Soon. Its Drinking Water Could Go First

#176

Post by howard941 »

mikestew wrote: post #168
leereeves wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. And some scientists believe that rate is accelerating, for example Steve Nerem et al: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/02/180212150739.h... That accelerating projection "has the potential to double the total sea level rise by 2100 as compared to projections that assume a constant rate -- to more than 60 cm instead of about 30". Two feet instead of one. I still don't see where six feet is coming from.

I still don't see where six feet is coming from. I read $SOMEWHERE recently that the the worst case scenario predicted six feet. But that's, IIRC, if we do absolutely nothing, the methane in the Arctic is all released, and Greenland melts. The more likely scenario is somewhere from 1-3 feet. So unless memory fails me, the article didn't just pull it out of its arse, but a source would've been nice rather than just th…

Here's a (the?) source for 3' that Bloomberg omitted https://www.coast.noaa.gov/states/stories/data-models-sea-le...

Misreading the link - as many newspapers have done, and it's wrong absent further data - results in 6'

EDIT: As noted by Accipitriform I made the same mistake I pinned on many newspapers.

Re: Miami Will Be Underwater Soon. Its Drinking Water Could Go First

#177

Post by erentz »

ctlby wrote: post #159
erentz wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we exclude Alaska then about half the coast encompasses Texas through North Carolina. This is also the part of the US coast that is most low lying and will see the greatest encroachment from rising sea levels.

Half of your “red” coastline consists of Florida—the vast majority of the coastal population of which is blue (see any 2016 electoral map).

Your point about red vs blue isn’t at issue here. These are all still the coastal states that are the most vociferously denying climate change. You’ll find it pretty hard to argue that any of them are more in favor of climate change action that the other coastal states regardless of whether they show up blue or red on an election map.

Re: Miami Will Be Underwater Soon. Its Drinking Water Could Go First

#178

Post by berbec »

artpepper2 wrote: post #172
igravious wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The article isn't saying Miami will be underwater soon. I beg to differ, it's the first sentence of the title of the article: “Miami Will Be Underwater Soon. […]” Then there's, “Barring a stupendous reversal in greenhouse gas emissions, the rising Atlantic will cover much of Miami by the end of this century. The economic effects will be devastating: Zillow Inc. estimates that six feet of sea-level rise would put a…

> Maybe we should replace them by people who are able to problem solve in the face of adversity. One of our political parties has been paid to ensure that doesn't happen.

And sadly, the one I prefer is in effective at anything but self-inflicted lower extremity gunshot wounds.

Re: Miami Will Be Underwater Soon. Its Drinking Water Could Go First

#179

Post by Accipitriform »

howard941 wrote: post #176
mikestew wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still don't see where six feet is coming from. I read $SOMEWHERE recently that the the worst case scenario predicted six feet. But that's, IIRC, if we do absolutely nothing, the methane in the Arctic is all released, and Greenland melts. The more likely scenario is somewhere from 1-3 feet. So unless memory fails me, the article didn't just pull it out of its arse, but a source would've been nice rather than just th…

Here's a (the?) source for 3' that Bloomberg omitted https://www.coast.noaa.gov/states/stories/data-models-sea-le... Misreading the link - as many newspapers have done, and it's wrong absent further data - results in 6' EDIT: As noted by Accipitriform I made the same mistake I pinned on many newspapers.

Actually that link makes no prediction at all about how much sea levels will rise. It merely looks at the impact if the sea level were to rise by the given amounts.

Re: Miami Will Be Underwater Soon. Its Drinking Water Could Go First

#180

Post by zaroth »

jellicle wrote: post #143
TangoTrotFox wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't agree more. It seems to be an increasing trend in the media lately that articles are driven by narrative and emotional appeals than actual facts. This creates the bizarre scenario where you can read a 3,691 word story on how Miami will soon be underwater and yet be unable to explain Why the article is proposing this might be the case. So for instance the first thing I did after seeing this headline was to…

> They put Miami's expected sea level rise at 0 to 1 feet over the next century That's a false description of what NOAA says. The sea level trend is an instantaneous rate, not a projection of any sort.

“The relative sea level trend is 2.39 mm/year with a 95% confidence interval of +/- 0.43 mm/year based on monthly mean sea level data from 1931 to 1981 which is equivalent to a change of 0.78 feet in 100 years.”
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