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How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

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Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#311

Post by mcv »

yladiz wrote: post #271
_fbpt wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That you think it's easy to pass drivers tests in the US is a joke.

It actually is a joke how bad some tests are. In a lot of cities in Florida your test is done in a parking lot with no real world driving with other cars, and it omits a lot of things, like parallel parking. Ideally licenses should be able to be transferred across states, but tests like the majority of ones in Florida mean drivers from there may be inadequately prepared for driving in some other states like CA.

I really hope this is an exaggeration.

Still, the US is not the only place with very mixed standards for driving tests. I once heard that the easiest way to get a Dutch driving license was on the Caribbean island of Saba, where you'd get your license if you could drive around the central square without causing an accident. I knew someone who got his license there, and he didn't dare to drive a car in Netherland. Fortunately he had a Dutch motorbike license.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#312

Post by mcv »

billfruit wrote: post #175
bunderbunder wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American, whenever I see articles about Dutch cycling culture, the thing that stands out to me is that nobody is wearing helmets. In the US, I wouldn't dream of doing that - it's just too dangerous, because there's too much risk of being involved in a high speed collision. But, after having spent some time in the Netherlands, it's come to feel like a minor injustice every time I put my helmet on. It's a little…

But is such casual cycling something uniquely Dutch? How is it different from the cycling culture in China, Vietnam, India or much of the third world?

I know that Denmark is trying hard to overtake Netherland as the best bicycle country in the world.

Also, according to some reports[1], there are 9 million bicycles in Beijing alone.

[1] Melua (2005)

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#313

Post by mcv »

jvannistelrooy wrote: post #303
KozmoNau7 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've broken two helmets over my years of cycling, quite possibly saving me from at least one skull fracture. So a helmet is mandatory to me. However, I don't want it to be mandated by law. That has shown to keep a lot of people from cycling.

I've a funny anecdote about this: I'm Dutch and do my daily commute on my casual bike without a helmet. In the weekends I ride my road bike and wear a helmet. I've once had an accident on my road bike and broke my helmet (along with my collar bone). A few weeks later I went out on my casual bike (not wearing a helmet) to buy a new helmet for my road bike. On my way back, holding the new helmet in my right hand, my st…

You'd think the logical thing would be to put that helmet on your head, but that just feels silly on a casual bike.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#314

Post by ab71e5 »

bluejekyll wrote: post #19
Rainymood wrote: post #2

As a Dutch person I am pleasantly surprised by this article, it gets basically everything right. One thing though is that our geography works well with biking. I visited the US recently and you can drive for 30 minutes in a car and you are still in LA, if you drive for 30 minutes in the Netherlands you're in a completely different city. Everything is just closer and hence more bike-able. As a dutch person I would abs…

> As a dutch person I would absolutely NOT want to ride a bike in the US, it's simply too dangerous. I understand this perspective, but as a counter to this, if no one bikes in the US then this won't change. I ride all over San Francisco. In the last 18 years of me living here things have gotten better and better for the cyclist, but there are still many areas that can be improved. I encourage you to support local or…

Biked all my life in the Netherlands, now in (suburbs of) Toronto.

It's completely different here, I wear a helmet, go much faster, have a much nicer bike, have to pay more attention and would never ride drunk.

I still take it over sitting in traffic any day.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#315

Post by sAbakumoff »

sharpercoder wrote: post #306
sAbakumoff wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a dutch person I would absolutely NOT want to ride a bike in the US, it's simply too dangerous. well, while it's very safe to ride a bike here in Netherlands, sh*t still happens regularly and crazy drivers are there. Past year I had this accident : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUY7psClcbQ

In which the cyclist is at fault, as the minivan is on the intersection before the cyclist and thus has right of way. Right of way only counts when arriving at the same time , often neglected in analysis.

Nope, it was the fault of the driver, he has to let the cyclist go. It is how it works here.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#316

Post by mcv »

Vinnl wrote: post #230
analog31 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>> As a dutch person I would absolutely NOT want to ride a bike in the US, it's simply too dangerous. A lot of Americans also think it's too dangerous. It's an obstacle to getting more people on bikes. When people at my workplace see me with my bike, or find out that I'm a cyclist, they beg me to be careful, promise to wear a helmet, and so forth. I have friends who are avid cyclists, but who limit their riding to d…

> A lot of Americans also think it's too dangerous. It's an obstacle to getting more people on bikes. Well, in the Netherlands it was supposedly the reason for demands for safer infrastructure, which in turn led to people starting to cycle more. > Google Maps gives different routes for bikes and cars. It does the same in the Netherlands, but I guess that's for a different reason: often roads are one-way only for cars…

Google Maps for bikes is notoriously bad around Amsterdam, though. Open Streetmap is generally better. Google tends to avoid bike-only routes and prefers to send you along car routes.

(It's not as bad as it once was, but it still has the annoying tendency to avoid the Sarphatistraat, for example.)

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#317

Post by CalRobert »

Rainymood wrote: post #2

As a Dutch person I am pleasantly surprised by this article, it gets basically everything right. One thing though is that our geography works well with biking. I visited the US recently and you can drive for 30 minutes in a car and you are still in LA, if you drive for 30 minutes in the Netherlands you're in a completely different city. Everything is just closer and hence more bike-able. As a dutch person I would abs…

The geography is fine, really. LA is flat and has decent-ish weather (too hot at times though)

The buildings and motorways are an absolutely hellscape of trash design, though. Whole damn city is an asphalt desert with a building sprinkled here and there. Why? Because laws force businesses and homes to have parking that often takes up more space than the building itself.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#318

Post by u801e »

mcv wrote: post #310
u801e wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You would also fail your driver's test in SF if you don't check for bikers when making a right turn. Infrastructure shouldn't be designed in a way to cause these types of turning conflicts. The general rule of the road is that vehicles on the right make right turns. Vehicles on the left make left turns, and vehicles in the middle proceed straight through the intersection. Turning conflicts, like what you're describ…

This works only on roads where cars and bikes go the same speed. There are many roads where cars want to go faster than that.

Cars and trucks and buses don't really go the same speed and it still works for them. Plus, on city streets where traffic is going 40 mph or less, the speed difference isn't really that great.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#319

Post by TylerE »

mcv wrote: post #311
yladiz wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It actually is a joke how bad some tests are. In a lot of cities in Florida your test is done in a parking lot with no real world driving with other cars, and it omits a lot of things, like parallel parking. Ideally licenses should be able to be transferred across states, but tests like the majority of ones in Florida mean drivers from there may be inadequately prepared for driving in some other states like CA.

I really hope this is an exaggeration. Still, the US is not the only place with very mixed standards for driving tests. I once heard that the easiest way to get a Dutch driving license was on the Caribbean island of Saba, where you'd get your license if you could drive around the central square without causing an accident. I knew someone who got his license there, and he didn't dare to drive a car in Netherland. Fort…

Here in NC, the road test was maybe 10 minutes long, in very light traffic. No parallel parking.

The written portion of the test consisted of sign identification and a few very easy multiple choice questions.

I did this when I was 15. That as almost 20 years ago. Have never, and will never, need to do anything else.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#320

Post by thirdsun »

sharpercoder wrote: post #306
sAbakumoff wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a dutch person I would absolutely NOT want to ride a bike in the US, it's simply too dangerous. well, while it's very safe to ride a bike here in Netherlands, sh*t still happens regularly and crazy drivers are there. Past year I had this accident : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUY7psClcbQ

In which the cyclist is at fault, as the minivan is on the intersection before the cyclist and thus has right of way. Right of way only counts when arriving at the same time , often neglected in analysis.

I‘m pretty sure this is wrong. If the van can‘t make the turn safely before the cyclist arrives/collides he has to let him pass. The question of who arrives first at an intersection is irrelevant in europe.
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