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How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

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Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#231

Post by lenlorijn »

wjnc wrote: post #4

A main one not pointed out: cars are always (extreme negligence would be the tipping point) liable for crashes with cyclists and pedestrians. That's quite supportive for keeping an eye out for possible danger. To support that liability insurance is obligatory for motorists. The one on left vs. right really is not even close to an issue. I would guess most MPs of most parties cycle to work. There is literally not a (n…

My Dutch law teacher explained it to me this way: "If you are in an airplane, with your bike, then parachute down to a highway and get hit by a car. The car might have a chance to not be liable, but probably still will be."

The reasoning behind this is, whatever accident happens, one of the two people involved is protected by a ton of glass and steel, one is out in the open. The one that is protected inherently has to bear more responsibility.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#232

Post by jiri »

Rainymood wrote: post #2

As a Dutch person I am pleasantly surprised by this article, it gets basically everything right. One thing though is that our geography works well with biking. I visited the US recently and you can drive for 30 minutes in a car and you are still in LA, if you drive for 30 minutes in the Netherlands you're in a completely different city. Everything is just closer and hence more bike-able. As a dutch person I would abs…

> One thing though is that our geography works well with biking.

Yeah, that one. Your country is ridiculously flat with highest peak of around 300m above see level.

On the other hand, there are a lot of raining days in Netherlands! I was very surprised that Dutch don't care too much about weather, they ride on sunny days same as on rainy days.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#233

Post by Vinnl »

rocgf wrote: post #76
dstick wrote: post #49

Don’t believe the lies! All the pictures in this article show a sunny city with happy cyclists. Apart from the last 2 months this is demonstrably false since everyone who lives in the Netherlands knows that if starts to rain the second you get outside to grab your bike and a strong headwind will follow you relentlessly, even when you make a 180 turn. Those are the facts. Don’t believe this propaganda.

No offence, but you're strawmaning heavily here. I mean sure, you're right, the weather in the Netherlands is as nice as those picture only for a couple of months per year, but that's not the point of the article, nor does it prove/disprove anything. The Dutch cycle year round, and while it is true that traffic in the summer is like double, cycling is still the main form of transportation for a significant portion of…

I'm quite sure the post was tongue-in-cheek. The point was basically that Dutch weather isn't great, disguised as a complain of propaganda.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#234

Post by Vinnl »

GijsjanB wrote: post #133
the-dude wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Bakfiets'. Bike with a 'bak', which would be a container? They are mostly rentals. I think IKEA rents out bakfietsen too.

The one 'bakfiets' in the picture may be a rental, but I know a lot of people owning one. All my friends and myself included own one. When I bring the kids to school in the 'bakfiets'. There is a 'bakfiets' traffic jam. It's also great for groceries and going to the beach!

Those are not the wide ones like in the picture though - almost nobody owns those.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#235

Post by kqr »

stefan_ wrote: post #123
codr4 wrote: post #27

From having spent quite some time in Amsterdam, I would say that you're safer on a bike than on foot. When a biker rings the bell on you in Amsterdam it's not a heads up or suggestion to get out of the way like in the rest of the world; it's quite possibly the last thing you will ever hear. From my experience, they go fast and expect you to move out of the way. Or you could try to not walk in bike lanes, I guess; not…

Well, you walked into a bike lane. If you walk into a car lane in the US, if the comments on that Uber crash are any indication, a good number of people are perfectly fine with you dieing under the wheels of an inattentive motorist and the police will blame you on the statement of the same motorist alone. The good news is that people don't generally die from pedestrian-bike collisions; it's a freak event and you are…

This is something I need to tell people way too often, and I like the way you put it.

All the time I hear about "life-threatening" speed freaks on bicycles. No. That's not how it works. I'd gladly be hit by 250 lbs going 20 mph any day, when the alternative is being hit by 2000 lbs going 30 mph. Even disregarding that the latter is truly life threatening and the former is not, the cyclist is just as likely to get injured when hitting someone, unlike the car driver.

The only reason bicycles appear dangerous is because the city planners encourage cyclists and pedestrians to occupy the same roads, which would be ridiculous if it weren't so sad.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#237

Post by taejo »

dmurray wrote: post #107
Angostura wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seem to recall from a geography A-level course about 35 years ago in the UK that historically Los Angeles' spread was something to do with the city fathers offering incentives to adjoining communities to become part of Los Angeles - something like 'call yourself Los Angeles and we'll give you access to our water or electrical grid'. Is that right? A bit hazy after all this time.

That doesn't sound right at all, it's almost the opposite of the current situation. Only a small part of the Los Angeles sprawl is officially in the city of Los Angeles. Another hundred communities aren't officially called Los Angeles, but might as well be.

Nah, it's basically right. The process just ended before it was complete, apparently triggered by the collapse of the St. Francis Dam.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#238

Post by jiri »

PascLeRasc wrote: post #85
pasta wrote: post #50

I once drove my bike through The Netherlands, Germany, Luxembourg, France and Belgium. They all have bike lanes (well France sometimes have them) but what is different is that most bike lanes in The Netherlands are separated from other lanes. So you are and feel mutch safer. So I believe that bike lanes are not enough. They should be realy separated from other trafic.

The other thing is that Europe doesn't have nearly as many huge SUVs as America. Helps a ton with visibility, driver awareness, braking speed, and less momentum in collisions.

Well, I believe that Dutch roads are quite ok because the speed limits are usually followed and drivers are attentive.

In other parts of Europe, road traffic is often much faster that speed limits (Central and Southern Europe) and drivers are not cooperative at all. Yeah, nothing that separated bike roads wouldn't solve.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#239

Post by lagadu »

billfruit wrote: post #175
bunderbunder wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American, whenever I see articles about Dutch cycling culture, the thing that stands out to me is that nobody is wearing helmets. In the US, I wouldn't dream of doing that - it's just too dangerous, because there's too much risk of being involved in a high speed collision. But, after having spent some time in the Netherlands, it's come to feel like a minor injustice every time I put my helmet on. It's a little…

But is such casual cycling something uniquely Dutch? How is it different from the cycling culture in China, Vietnam, India or much of the third world?

It's not, the overwhelming majority of cyclists in Denmark don't use helmets either.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#240

Post by psergeant »

Rainymood wrote: post #2

As a Dutch person I am pleasantly surprised by this article, it gets basically everything right. One thing though is that our geography works well with biking. I visited the US recently and you can drive for 30 minutes in a car and you are still in LA, if you drive for 30 minutes in the Netherlands you're in a completely different city. Everything is just closer and hence more bike-able. As a dutch person I would abs…

> One thing though is that our geography works well with biking

Right, 100%. I wonder if the cheap electric-assist bikes will make more countries / cities essentially “flat”

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