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How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

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Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#171

Post by siruncledrew »

Rainymood wrote: post #2

As a Dutch person I am pleasantly surprised by this article, it gets basically everything right. One thing though is that our geography works well with biking. I visited the US recently and you can drive for 30 minutes in a car and you are still in LA, if you drive for 30 minutes in the Netherlands you're in a completely different city. Everything is just closer and hence more bike-able. As a dutch person I would abs…

It feels dangerously unsafe to even ride a motorcycle with a helmet and skid gear in car-heavy, “share the road” areas. Biking with a 20lbs road bike and just a helmet when 3000+lbs pickups are zooming past you feels like Russian roulette.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#172

Post by [deleted] »

sbradford26 wrote: post #22
phil248 wrote: post #17

I was amazed at how mellow everyone in Amsterdam seemed while riding their bikes. In US cities, most cyclist act like they're in a race. They must run every stop sign, charge down every hill, graze every pedestrian... in downtown Amsterdam most people were going at a leisurely pace and if you get in their way, they just ding a little bell at you.

I would say that is because in the US only the people most into biking use their bikes to commute. They have to want to bike enough to put up with no bike lanes and such. This attracts people who want to ride fast, there is also very little community to hold each other accountable for riding like that.

[deleted]

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#173

Post by pedrosorio »

siruncledrew wrote: post #171
Rainymood wrote: post #2

As a Dutch person I am pleasantly surprised by this article, it gets basically everything right. One thing though is that our geography works well with biking. I visited the US recently and you can drive for 30 minutes in a car and you are still in LA, if you drive for 30 minutes in the Netherlands you're in a completely different city. Everything is just closer and hence more bike-able. As a dutch person I would abs…

It feels dangerously unsafe to even ride a motorcycle with a helmet and skid gear in car-heavy, “share the road” areas. Biking with a 20lbs road bike and just a helmet when 3000+lbs pickups are zooming past you feels like Russian roulette.

> when 3000lbs pickups are zooming past you

Apparently a Honda Accord 2018 weighs more than 3,000 lbs (up to 3,428).

Also, and somewhat surprising given the above, you can buy a Ford F-150 that weighs just 4,000 lbs

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#174

Post by rorykoehler »

neals wrote: post #26

It isn't all fun and games. I had to ride the bike to school for 5 years. Over in the neighbouring city. A 45 minute ride. Alone. Through wind, rain, wind and wind. And rain. That's also part of the culture, because it's safe and ok to send kids, 12 years old, on their own, in the dark over unlit forest roads. Through the wind. Also wind. Saves on bus fare. Which is also typically Dutch. I don't own a bike any more.

I would have killed to swap my 60-90min bus journey for your bike ride... and yes I regularly cycled for leisure in the conditions you mentioned. That said I know not everyone is a glutton for that kind of suffering which is why I am hopeful electric bikes will take off in a big way. The electric assist will make the wind (and hills) a non-issue and then you can just cruise anywhere if you dress right. If electric bikes replace cars for most daily journeys the world would be a much more enjoyable place to exist in.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#175

Post by billfruit »

bunderbunder wrote: post #5
Rainymood wrote: post #2

As a Dutch person I am pleasantly surprised by this article, it gets basically everything right. One thing though is that our geography works well with biking. I visited the US recently and you can drive for 30 minutes in a car and you are still in LA, if you drive for 30 minutes in the Netherlands you're in a completely different city. Everything is just closer and hence more bike-able. As a dutch person I would abs…

As an American, whenever I see articles about Dutch cycling culture, the thing that stands out to me is that nobody is wearing helmets. In the US, I wouldn't dream of doing that - it's just too dangerous, because there's too much risk of being involved in a high speed collision. But, after having spent some time in the Netherlands, it's come to feel like a minor injustice every time I put my helmet on. It's a little…

But is such casual cycling something uniquely Dutch? How is it different from the cycling culture in China, Vietnam, India or much of the third world?

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#176

Post by wyclif »

kazen44 wrote: post #66
tlb wrote: post #33

Another way in which biking in (some parts of) the US isn't casual: pretty much every biker you see in Silicon Valley has bike shorts, a jersey advertising a race or energy drink, clip-in shoes and is riding at VO₂ max. I feel out of place tooling around in street clothes.

This is suchs a strange concept to me as a dutchman. Americans seem to think biking is mainly a sport instead of a mode of transportation. Most dutch people ride on bicycles which are either A) in a constant semi-broken state (students are notorious for this) or B) riding a luxery city bike (usually high income families).

I'm an American, but I'm a big fan of the basic black opafiets. It's so practical and functional.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#177

Post by rorykoehler »

kazen44 wrote: post #66
tlb wrote: post #33

Another way in which biking in (some parts of) the US isn't casual: pretty much every biker you see in Silicon Valley has bike shorts, a jersey advertising a race or energy drink, clip-in shoes and is riding at VO₂ max. I feel out of place tooling around in street clothes.

This is suchs a strange concept to me as a dutchman. Americans seem to think biking is mainly a sport instead of a mode of transportation. Most dutch people ride on bicycles which are either A) in a constant semi-broken state (students are notorious for this) or B) riding a luxery city bike (usually high income families).

You only have to drive across the border to Germany to find full-kit alpine hikers (poles and all) walking their leisurely stroll in their local park. This reflects essentially the same attitude as what the GP described.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#178

Post by mikekchar »

bunderbunder wrote: post #35
watwut wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Helmet does not help in high speed crash with car and is not designed for it. It helps in small falls.

I've seen that stated many times. As far as I can tell, it traces back to a news article that did fun things like cherry picking individual observations from a study to support a claim even though the study's overall findings were contradictory. My own sense is that the science seems pretty clear that, provided you are in a wreck, wearing a helmet greatly reduces your risk of serious injury and death. Helmets aren't…

Assuming you are landing on a horizontal surface, it's only the vertical component of the fall that you have to worry about. A fall from 2 meters accelerates you to about 22 km/h (27 km/h for 3 meters). Helmets are design to protect you from a 2-3 meter fall onto an anvil (depending on the standard). As long as you don't hit anything vertical (the curb, a telephone pole, a car, etc), a helmet will give you good head protection no matter how fast you are going (and will also give you some protection against abrasions).

Depending on how fast you are going, a helmet may even help for hitting things. Quite a few people don't exceed 25 km/h on their bikes, especially in city situations. Similarly, if you are aware of a dangerous situation, then slowing down may give you some protection. It's absolutely not going to help if you are bombing along at 40 km/h and get doored, but at that point, nothing really will.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#179

Post by rorykoehler »

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #82
walshemj wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that because of endemic bike theft and city bikes are not really expensive they start to top out where a good entry level MTB starts.

In Amsterdam and Copenhagen alike, a lot of bikes are sort of community property, usually involuntarily. I ride a reasonably nice bike for transport, which I keep well-maintained and always secure with two locks. But most bikes I see are in a rather sorry state, with rusty dangling chains, wobbly wheels, flat tires and busted accessories. Yet they seem to still perform adequately well for their task.

In Berlin the joke is you rent your bikes for an indefinite time-period when you buy it. Having your bike stolen every few months hurts less when you paid €20 (and suspected it was already stolen before).

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#180

Post by rorykoehler »

gamegoblin wrote: post #98
Karrot_Kream wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so inaccurate, it's almost laughable. The max speed in sprints during the Tour de France [1] is 43.5mph. Unless you encountered a Tour de France rider, I doubt the cyclist blew through at ~45mph. 1: http://slocyclist.com/whats-the-average-speed-of-tour-de-fra...

If the cyclist had just descended a steep hill, being in the realm of 45mph is not at all unbelievable. I hit 35mph coasting down a very small hill on my commute every day.

They would not be blowing stop signs at 45mph unless there was a mechanical issue which stopped them form slowing down. The difference between 35mph and 45mph is huge on a bike.
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