Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

vox.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 391 posts

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#161

Post by RLN »

neals wrote: post #26

It isn't all fun and games. I had to ride the bike to school for 5 years. Over in the neighbouring city. A 45 minute ride. Alone. Through wind, rain, wind and wind. And rain. That's also part of the culture, because it's safe and ok to send kids, 12 years old, on their own, in the dark over unlit forest roads. Through the wind. Also wind. Saves on bus fare. Which is also typically Dutch. I don't own a bike any more.

When I lived in the Netherlands it always seemed like anyone over 30 had a war story of how they used to cycle in such harsh conditions.

I used to cycle 18km to get to work and if I would tell a Dutch person it was always "Oh that's nothing, I used to cycle twice that distance in the snow uphill when I was younger!"

Generally the rain was fine, it was the wind that can make you feel like someone is pushing against your bike that really got to me.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#162

Post by Scott_Sanderson »

jodrellblank wrote: post #150

Cities designed for bikes and bicyclists, are still not cities designed for humans. https://newworldeconomics.com/the-problem-with-bicycles/ Bikes are expensive personal transportation, compared to not owning any, they take up space in every home with muddy, oily mechanisms, they take up a lot of space in bicycle parks outside every desirable destination serving to push everything further apart for humans on foot, th…

But less than 1/10th as bad as cars, no?

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#163

Post by edaemon »

cr1895 wrote: post #13

It wasn’t always this way. There’s an interesting clip from a documentary in 1972 about the neighborhood De Pijp in Amsterdam, when it was still very much a car-centric city. At the time children in the area protested how dangerous the streets had become and how they lacked safe areas to play. https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2013/12/12/amsterdam-chil... Compared to the situation now, it’s vastly improved. Fortunat…

Bicycle Dutch, the blog you posted, also has a great YouTube channel detailing Dutch bike infrastructure and some of its history: https://www.youtube.com/bicycledutch

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#164

Post by mkirschner »

Rainymood wrote: post #2

As a Dutch person I am pleasantly surprised by this article, it gets basically everything right. One thing though is that our geography works well with biking. I visited the US recently and you can drive for 30 minutes in a car and you are still in LA, if you drive for 30 minutes in the Netherlands you're in a completely different city. Everything is just closer and hence more bike-able. As a dutch person I would abs…

I'm a long-time bike commuter in the U.S (Portland, OR suburbs). Your comment reminds me of a Dutch colleague I once worked with. He was adamant that cycling conditions were too dangerous here. As a relative statement compared to the Netherlands, I'm sure that's true. For me personally, the health benefits and general enjoyment make it worthwhile. Also, it's important to know what you're doing when cycling in traffic, even in a "bike friendly" city. Unfortunately, there's no formal education in the USA around that topic, like there is for driving an automobile.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#165

Post by prestonh »

Rainymood wrote: post #2

As a Dutch person I am pleasantly surprised by this article, it gets basically everything right. One thing though is that our geography works well with biking. I visited the US recently and you can drive for 30 minutes in a car and you are still in LA, if you drive for 30 minutes in the Netherlands you're in a completely different city. Everything is just closer and hence more bike-able. As a dutch person I would abs…

Ive nearly been hit by cars twice as a law abiding pedestrian in the 6 months I have been in Seattle,so theres no way I am cycling here. And as a city on the West Coast, I am sure it is more bike friendly than most in the states. Fortunately, I work and live near downtown, so I can walk my daily commute.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#166

Post by dgut »

The thing about NL is that it's totally flat and a tiny piece of land. The biking culture is a result of their geography, not anything else. For example, in Norway, where biking infrastructure is quite decent and people are generally positive about biking/being environmentally responsible, biking is simply impossible in most cases because of the larger hilly landmass and the cold snowy winters.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#167

Post by desas »

bunderbunder wrote: post #48
Scott_Sanderson wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> provided you are in a wreck, wearing a helmet greatly reduces your risk of serious injury and death So . . . you wear a helmet when driving? Because people get head injuries all the time in car wrecks.

My bicycle doesn't have nearly as many air bags as a typical car. You're right, though. Cars are fundamentally dangerous. High risk of violent injury or death, and, even in the best case, they subtly harm your health and longevity by encouraging a sedentary lifestyle. Damned expensive, too. Perhaps we should all just move to Rotterdam so we wouldn't have to deal with them so much.

> My bicycle doesn't have nearly as many air bags as a typical car.

yet statistically per-passenger-mile you're more likely to get a head injury while in a car than on a bike.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#168

Post by seanmcdirmid »

hfdgiutdryg wrote: post #160
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve stopped peaking over my shoulders ever since I’ve gotten a car with a bunch of sensors and cameras. Now it seems like it is more dangerous to take the time to look back and instead just rely on the fairly reliable sensor indicator in the side review mirrors. It’s not even like you can do both, unfortunately, since you either look here or there. I wonder how much driving will change with technology before we get…

I’ve stopped peaking over my shoulders ever since I’ve gotten a car with a bunch of sensors and cameras. When I ride in newer cars, I'm always surprised at how poor the outward visibility is. Front pillars have gotten enormous in order to house airbags, and the rear pillars seem to always be absurdly think with tiny, useless corner windows (for crush/rollover strength?). It's no wonder that you're more dependent on t…

That is totally true! I’ve noticed that even if did turn my head, I wasn’t seeing much compared to the last car I bought twenty years ago. The rear window is also much smaller than I’m comfortable with, but the sensors make up for it.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#169

Post by __d »

ams6110 wrote: post #143
Symbiote wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would have loved that kind of independence at age 12, but with the fear of traffic, paedophiles, kidnappers and whatever, I wasn't even allowed to walk to the end of the road unsupervised.

That's too bad. When I was 12 (late 1970s, Midwest US) I rode my bike all over the place. No mobile phone either. I'm sure there were as many pedophiles and kidnappers then as now, but I never encountered any. I think the risk of a totally random stranger doing anything is very overblown. And traffic was certainly less aware of bikes. You learned to pay attention to cars.

When I was 12 (late 70s, Australia) I rode my bike all over the place. Rode to and from school, about 25 minutes each way. And through the forest at the edge of town -- we'd disappear for hours there, riding as far as the next town (1 hour downhill :-)

We knew where the dodgy guy hung out near the public toilets in the park, and avoided him (the teacher at school was a different matter).

I think ... people were less alienated from society then. It seems different now.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#170

Post by timwaagh »

dgut wrote: post #166

The thing about NL is that it's totally flat and a tiny piece of land. The biking culture is a result of their geography, not anything else. For example, in Norway, where biking infrastructure is quite decent and people are generally positive about biking/being environmentally responsible, biking is simply impossible in most cases because of the larger hilly landmass and the cold snowy winters.

norway is a huge country. sure you have bigger hills, but nobody lives there. what about those places where people actually live? snow isnt that big of a problem, you have salt for that. the simple problem is norwegians have too much money for cars.

biking in the netherlands was never about the environment or vitue signalling, we do it because its necessary. tax and cost of housing is very expensive relative to our salaries. a lot of people cannot really afford cars so we need another option. its more similar to biking in china or vietnam in that sense.

Post reply on HN