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Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

nytimes.com

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Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#151

Post by sampo »

aluren wrote: post #68

It should be noted that many views espoused by what Americans call 'liberals' or 'left-leaning' people are in fact the mainstream in the EU (such as issues about abortion, gun control, death penalty, healthcare, and so on) and commonly accepted by almost all parties except what we'd call 'far-right' ones. So I'm wondering: when those articles pop up calling the tech world/the Valley/company X a 'liberal monoculture'…

I'm European. Yes, we think abortion, gun control, no death penalty and public healthcare are normal things. But European companies, or European work colleagues, don't think that (conservative) Americans are unhireable, or that they should be fired just because they're Americans and hold American political views.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#152

Post by mwfunk »

taneq wrote: post #96
hegz wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was never a time when different ideas were tolerated. The things we tolerate have changed. Maybe the time you speak of was the time when all of your ideas were tolerated. In the past people tolerated the idea that it was OK to own slaves, now we dont. In the past people did not tolerate the idea that it is OK to be gay, now we do.

I grew up with the understanding that just because someone thought differently to me didn't mean they were wrong, and that it's OK for people to agree to disagree on some things while still remaining friends. This view has definitely gone out of vogue in the past 10 years.

Nothing has changed with regard to reasonable people reasonably disagreeing over reasonable differences. The Overton Window has changed for sure, but that's what it does. I struggle to think of any perspective that has moved out of the Overton Window over the past 10 years that I regret losing. If anything the Overton Window has moved backwards in recent years to better accommodate the Alex Joneses of the world, but I don't see how that's a good thing.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#153

Post by manfredo »

wrsh07 wrote: post #134
manfredo wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I've discussed politics with many of my coworkers. Few of them have any hesitation discussing liberal standpoints. I can only assume that conservatives are staying silent. I can't claim to speak for conservatives, but I can totally understand why they would stay silent given the atmosphere. See the reply to my other comment, where a HN poster straight up says they would fire any employees that support Trump: htt…

> Yes, I've discussed politics with many of my coworkers. Few of them have any hesitation discussing liberal standpoints. If the linked commenter were to say nobody would express their conservative views to them, that wouldn't surprise me. However, it seems like you'd be a bit more sympathetic (than the linked commenter). I've found a number of colleagues from red states who supported/support Trump (often for reasons…

I don't disagree with your experience in NY, but it isn't a very good counterexample to my experiences in Silicon Valley. For what it's worth, I grew up in and routinely visit the Seattle area and I don't think it has the same atmosphere as the San Francisco and Silicon Valley area. I have met plenty of conservatives in Seattle (well, mostly in the outer metro areas of Bellevue, Kirkland, etc.).

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#154

Post by hpcjoe »

whatshisface wrote: post #44
slg wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but I'm not the one who lumped those two together. That quote in the article says the conservative critics are the ones jumping to use Jones' ban as evidence of anti-conservative bias. The "critics" are self-identifying as Jones' allies. That is a red flag in my book since many of Jones' views don't deserve respect.

Alex Jones is not respected by most conservatives (even the hypothetical person who agreed with every single one of his views would still think that his delivery was a bit hammy). If conservatives are rallying around him, it's based on the idea that as soon as the least defensible person is gone, the least defensible person becomes whoever used to be the second least defensible, and so on, and so on... It's almost th…

There is a poem by Niemoller that seems relevant[1]. The point of the poem is that if you don't speak up against actions taken against groups, you may not have support when action is taken against you.

What is going on appears to be people standing up and saying "enough". Which is good. If they are hauled away and fired, well, then not so good.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#155

Post by rublev »

_mhyx wrote: post #87

The comments in this thread are shocking, Inquisition level stuff. I can't believe I spend time here. Remember when HN was tech stuff? Now it's: manfredo 16 minutes ago The following views were listed on the memo: * Support of President Trump (e.g. This and Palmer Lucky's campaign contributions) * "All lives matter" * Criticism of Islam's human rights record. * Calling the company's art politically radical . Which, i…

>Am I crazy, and the world has just moved on to be horrible?

Lol I got fired for making a joke after-hours over beers to a guy that wasn't politically aligned. It's wild. To mess with someones livlihood because of a political opinion.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#156

Post by _iyig »

postnihilism wrote: post #149
_iyig wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t agree that all criticism of misogynistic divorce laws, violence against “immodest” women, and application of the death penalty for homosexuality or apostasy is driven by “deeply-rooted white supremacy.” I would fire anyone who held such a belief, as I would not trust them around female, gay, or ex-Muslim co-workers.

Equating 'misogynistic divorce laws, violence against “immodest” women, and application of the death penalty for homosexuality' with an entire religion of 1.6 billion people is the issue, not criticism of a specific country's human rights record. You should not come to work and rail against a major world religion...

The original point of argument was “Criticism of Islam's human rights record.“ Not “railing against Islam.” Was anything unclear about this?

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#157

Post by landryraccoon »

manfredo wrote: post #30
xtracerx wrote: post #5

Not all views deserve respect. Depending on what specific views they are talking about a lot of the ones circulating should not be tolerated.

The following views were listed on the memo: * Support of President Trump (e.g. Thiel's and Palmer Lucky's campaign contributions) * "All lives matter" * Criticism of Islam's human rights record. * Calling the company's art politically radical . Which, if any, of these views don't deserve respect?

I'm genuinely curious what "All lives matter" stands for except for being opposed to the idea that "Black lives matter".

There's a key difference here - "Black lives matter" attempts to point out that there is discrimination in law enforcement that seems to single out minorities. Correcting this discrimination would be good. What policy change does "All lives matter" advocate? Do those policy changes indeed benefit "all lives" or are they more designed to take away focus from legitimate problems minorities face due to racism or inequality?

To be honest I quite suspect it is the latter, and that is why I frankly suspect that "All lives matter" is racist at it's core. After all, if the movement doesn't really advocate for policy changes that benefit all lives but instead is just a reaction to attempts to fix discrimination, that is pretty racist.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#158

Post by austinheap »

ericdykstra wrote: post #128
megaremote wrote: post #108

> Why are companies promoting "pride"...telling workers to attend 'lgbt tolerance' meetings,etc... Wth!!!! You ask this question, then answer it in your very next line. People don't respect everyone. They are intolerant.

If an employee is harassing or demeaning their coworker based on their beliefs, that's enough grounds to fire an employee. Is there any evidence that promoting "pride" and "lgbt tolerance" makes employees treat each other well in cases where they otherwise wouldn't have?

From Harvard Business Review:

"Results from our experiment involving 118 undergraduate students showed that taking the perspective of LGBT individuals or racial minorities — by writing a few sentences imagining the distinct challenges a marginalized minority might face — can improve pro-diversity attitudes and behavioral intentions toward these groups."

https://hbr.org/2017/07/two-types-of-diversity-training-that...

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#159

Post by itronitron »

_8j50 wrote: post #118
itronitron wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what was unpleasant about the very liberal workplace?

Same as conservative. Someone telling me what is ok and not ok to believe. I did not show up to work to get a brain-wash. I joined a company,not a cult.

point taken, that definitely seems over the line

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#160

Post by mychael »

wwweston wrote: post #142

A couple of thoughts: * As much as I enjoy forwarding and debating my own political ideas in settings where I think there's an opportunity, I've never considered work a primary venue for this, and the premise that political diversity should be a priority for a business is one that doesn't seem to have any kind of supporting argument. Companies exist to organize an economic activity. Other activity is incidental. Idea…

> If Mr. Amerige is a fan of Rand, perhaps he should consider ...

That makes no sense. It would be against the company's interest to do that for many reasons.

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