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The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined

nytimes.com

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Re: The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined

#101

Post by SamReidHughes »

mmanfrin wrote: post #55
drcode wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I must say, as someone who made quite a few sacrifices to pay off my school debt, I'll be pretty miffed if less responsible people from my same generation get a break on their loans.

I'm reminded of my old boss, a native Italian who had spent 7 years getting American citizenship. He was vehemently anti-immigrant and thought anything that helped "illegal immigrants" was a bad thing. Your opinion and his are, to me, examples of one of the worst forms of greed: greed with a reasonable excuse. It is rational and I cannot really fault you for feeling that way, but this form of greed makes fixing the p…

It is justice, not greed, that people have to pay back money they borrow.

Re: The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined

#102

Post by jquery »

mmanfrin wrote: post #55
drcode wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I must say, as someone who made quite a few sacrifices to pay off my school debt, I'll be pretty miffed if less responsible people from my same generation get a break on their loans.

I'm reminded of my old boss, a native Italian who had spent 7 years getting American citizenship. He was vehemently anti-immigrant and thought anything that helped "illegal immigrants" was a bad thing. Your opinion and his are, to me, examples of one of the worst forms of greed: greed with a reasonable excuse. It is rational and I cannot really fault you for feeling that way, but this form of greed makes fixing the p…

Was your old boss vehemently anti-immigrant or vehemently anti-illegal immigrant? I'm reminded of my wife, who legally immigrated to the states after getting a Ph.D. and working very hard. She finds illegal immigration quite aggravating and has sardonically suggested bringing over her parents for the social benefits because the rule-breakers seem to get rewarded with public benefits.

Re: The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined

#103

Post by user68858788 »

lowpro wrote: post #17

Still being in college, so many people I know just assume debt is no issue. It's not a concept that hits close to home, and most people seem to be fine with repaying them forever, like buying a new phone every 2 years or a new car every 3. I've never known anyone who couldn't get a loan, no matter how bad their grades or weak their employment after college looks. I don't really understand how that works and who would…

The favorite phrase of the president of Ringling College of Art and Design is, "the myth of the starving artist." He says this with a straight face as students graduate with 150,000 in debt and less than a 10% chance of getting a hired for their major.

So yeah, I'd say colleges are exploiting students and parents.

Re: The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined

#104

Post by pwned1 »

ben1040 wrote: post #87
pwned1 wrote: post #25

With PAYE and IBR, it seems like one could permanently take a couple of classes, receive all of the loan money for "living expenses," and then run up an unlimited amount of student loans... and they never have to pay back more than just a percentage of your income...

Any amount forgiven at the end of an IBR term is considered taxable income, so at some point you're going to just trade your student loan servicer's payment plan for an installment plan with the IRS. And if your IBR payment isn't enough to cover the interest as it accrues, your balance at the end might be pretty big. There was a story in the WSJ about a dentist who currently has $1MM in student loan balances and is o…

Generally the IRS will not tax you on a forgiven debt to the extent that you are insolvent. Insolvent to the IRS mean more liabilities than assets.

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/what-if-i-am-insolvent

Re: The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined

#105

Post by candiodari »

stouset wrote: post #86
drcode wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I suffered so others should have to I didn't "suffer", I just fulfilled the obligations I signed up for when I signed up to my loans.

This is not a defensible reason to allow the whole system to come crashing down.

If the system isn't beyond fixing yet ... no worries, have you seen the rate at which it's growing ?

So of course it's going to crash.

It's like watching a feedback loop in your motor controller, and seeing the numbers start going up, knowing there's too much force in the system to abort it now. It could be an hour before the loud bang comes, but nothing can stop it. If you interrupt it right now, you do less damage right now (still enough to destroy the system of course), but if you let it go, it remains undamaged until it overloads. And you know, you might get really lucky and have the axle melt or something, which avoids the damage. The odds, to put it mildly, don't favor that outcome though.

Technically the better action is to interrupt it, but I've hardly ever seen anyone do that.

Re: The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined

#107

Post by drcode »

ryfia wrote: post #91
drcode wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I must say, as someone who made quite a few sacrifices to pay off my school debt, I'll be pretty miffed if less responsible people from my same generation get a break on their loans.

I actually agree with you on this. Despite getting accepted to many top-tier universities (Berkeley, Yale, Rice), I chose to go to an in-state school with a generous scholarship so I could come out of school with very little loans. I sacrificed going to a really great school like Berkeley (and living in California!) so I would save money and not end up in so much debt. While I fully think that debt is a nondesirable…

Thanks, nice to have a single person agree with me. That said, I also agree that my personal situation (be it through luck or responsible behavior) now makes it possible for me to be generous to others, and I'm certainly happy to pay extra in taxes, to an extent.

I guess what bothers me is just this sense of entitlement of people that originated from my same social stratum who now argue "the game was rigged" when I never saw evidence of this. (This annoyance of mine BTW does not transfer to disadvantaged folks who did not come from a middle class background... I agree 100% they got a harder lot in life than many of us and are often right to complain.)

Re: The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined

#108

Post by blindwatchmaker »

acjohnson55 wrote: post #18

It's a damn shame we've let this crisis reach this scale. Along with healthcare, climate change, the debt, our inauguration, and so on, we've been essentially frozen for most of my life as politicians concern themselves more so with existential power struggle. The right wants to bring us back to the gilded age, the left makes headlines but is barely relevant, and the center is trying to squeeze bandaid solutions whil…

It's time for a debt jubilee.

Re: The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined

#109

Post by citrablue »

stouset wrote: post #86
drcode wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I suffered so others should have to I didn't "suffer", I just fulfilled the obligations I signed up for when I signed up to my loans.

This is not a defensible reason to allow the whole system to come crashing down.

3 questions 1/ Are there solutions on the table where the cure isn't worse than the disease? That money has been spent, it came from somewhere. Can it just be vanquished without repercussions?

2/ Objectively, what is the likelihood that continuing the status quo crashes the system?

3/ What are the long term consequences from potential solutions? E.g., if current debts are forgiven/cancelled, would lenders refuse to lend for colleges? Would well off people with significant debt take advantage of the system we're protecting, leading to less trust in it, which could cause it's own collapse movement?

The defensible logic is that we don't really know that current student debt will "crash the system", and we definitely don't know what the 2nd and 3rd order consequences would be if any of the solutions were implemented.

Re: The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined

#110

Post by 75dvtwin »

lend000 wrote: post #33
acjohnson55 wrote: post #18

It's a damn shame we've let this crisis reach this scale. Along with healthcare, climate change, the debt, our inauguration, and so on, we've been essentially frozen for most of my life as politicians concern themselves more so with existential power struggle. The right wants to bring us back to the gilded age, the left makes headlines but is barely relevant, and the center is trying to squeeze bandaid solutions whil…

I often wonder how many problems would be fixed by adding a 2 term limit to the House and Senate.

I think it would solve a lot of problems. My main expectation, is the dramatic reduction of influence by lobbyists. Which in turn, should produce a model where lobbyist would work on influencing the actual voters. So they may not spend less money, but it will go on influencing the electorate itself. The language, methods and areas of influence will change as well -- and that's what I would like.

I realize, that at least in some analysis, this did not happen in Michigan. (just reduction of lobbyist spending was 13%, but politicians with less experience consulted with them more -- See page 19 of [1] ).

However, I think the number of years in service, plus preliminary background requirements for staff members, plus other adjustments, still need to be made for a proper term-limit system.

Fundamentally, I believe, there are no small (defined as less than 1000), humans that should be permanently place in the position of distributing tax dollars, or military control.

These two things will produce corruption no matter how 'intellectually clean' a person is, entering the position.

US, UK and other countries claiming to be the 'moral compasses' for the world to follow, need to figure out how to switch from the class of politicians to the 'statesman' .

Whereas, I see a politician as somebody who makes is their job/career, vs statesman -- who view their work as a poorly (or insignificantly) compensated service for 8-12 years.

[1] http://www.msae.org/Portals/0/PDF/Term%20Limits%20White%20Pa...

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