The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined • Hacker News Board

Re: The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined

#61

Post by Delmania » Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 11:48 PM UTC

drcode wrote: post #34

acjohnson55 wrote: post #18

It's a damn shame we've let this crisis reach this scale. Along with healthcare, climate change, the debt, our inauguration, and so on, we've been essentially frozen for most of my life as politicians concern themselves more so with existential power struggle. The right wants to bring us back to the gilded age, the left makes headlines but is barely relevant, and the center is trying to squeeze bandaid solutions whil…

I must say, as someone who made quite a few sacrifices to pay off my school debt, I'll be pretty miffed if less responsible people from my same generation get a break on their loans.

So, emotionally you may be angry, but realistically, how would that negatively impact your life?

Re: The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined

#62

Post by drcode » Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 11:48 PM UTC

thatjsguy wrote: post #47

drcode wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I must say, as someone who made quite a few sacrifices to pay off my school debt, I'll be pretty miffed if less responsible people from my same generation get a break on their loans.

Somebody getting a break doesn’t bring you down, it just brings them up. I’m sorry you had to pay off your loans. I’m paying about $100,000 myself. But even if I didn’t get amnesty, I’d rather not have one more graduate who, like me, has sincerely considered whether simply being dead would be easier to deal with. And there are a lot of people like that. I’d rather be in debt forever if it means that subsequent multit…

> Somebody getting a break doesn’t bring you down, it just brings them up.

Well, the assumption here is that the money to "bring them up" can just be materialized out of thin air and doesn't have to be taken from other people, in turn.

Re: The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined

#63

Post by thatjsguy » Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 11:48 PM UTC

dev_dull wrote: post #19

There really needs to be some “free market” ideology injected into the way loans are dispersed. First of all students need a way to declare bankruptcy. Second, we must take into consideration future earnings potential when deciding how much and at what rate.

What if we just like... paid for school with taxes like literally every other country? (Trust me, it shouldn’t cost as much as it does to get a degree. I promise it can be and, in fact, used to be affordable.)

Re: The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined

#64

Post by phil248 » Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 11:48 PM UTC

"...averaging $22,000 in debt by graduation"

That is not very much money. That's a modest new car or a down payment on a small home in a cheap zip code. At low enough interest rates, that monthly bill will be less than most people's cell phone or cable bill.

I think that's a reasonable price for something as unique and transformative as a college experience.

There is obviously a serious problem here, but not necessarily for those students who end up with less than 30k in student debt and do not default. That appears to be the majority of students. I'd like to know how many students are earning a bachelor's degree with more than $30k in debt, and how many of those students attended public universities.

Re: The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined

#65

Post by ProfessorLayton » Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 11:49 PM UTC

Student loans are a huge drag on the economy, as it postpones other key events in one’s life, such as buying a home.

But something else is going on as well. Lots of these articles talk about student loans as an average, however, the median defaulter looks very different — The median defaulter does so with a loan of Just under 10k [1] and not the average of 22k as shown in this article.

It is worth discussing why the median defaulter is unable to pay roughly $100 per month (assuming a 10y payment plan), and how to address that issue. When viewed from this perspective, the problem does not seem insurmountable.

I was lucky enough to not need to borrow more than the average amount and pay it off quickly.

[1] https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/education-postsecond...

Re: The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined

#66

Post by theLotusGambit » Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 11:49 PM UTC

Perspective (anecdote) from a high school student: There is a real push for college. It's an unstated assumption that you're going to go, and the topic of debt seems to be passively avoided ("Don't worry, it'll all work out!"). We receive a grade for the college application process, so you can't not apply. College is still probably a good deal the majority of the time I think, but I wish there was some acknowledgement that it is less important in some fields than others. As for me, I think I'll take a pass on it, for now anyway. There's always time to change my mind later on.

Re: The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined

#67

Post by thatjsguy » Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 11:50 PM UTC

drcode wrote: post #62

thatjsguy wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somebody getting a break doesn’t bring you down, it just brings them up. I’m sorry you had to pay off your loans. I’m paying about $100,000 myself. But even if I didn’t get amnesty, I’d rather not have one more graduate who, like me, has sincerely considered whether simply being dead would be easier to deal with. And there are a lot of people like that. I’d rather be in debt forever if it means that subsequent multit…

> Somebody getting a break doesn’t bring you down, it just brings them up. Well, the assumption here is that the money to "bring them up" can just be materialized out of thin air and doesn't have to be taken from other people, in turn.

Taxation has been around forever. Society gets to vote and decide how to divide up shared resources. I’m perfectly fine with tax dollars going to education (coupled with drastically-reduced tuition, like it used to be a short couple decades ago). I’m curious why everyone thinks it’s so impossible to have affordable education, when not even a generation ago we actually had it in the US.

Re: The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined

#68

Post by Delmania » Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 11:50 PM UTC

fzeroracer wrote: post #29

In a fit of irony I managed to graduate college because I was too poor to pay for college. FAFSA covered everything I needed, although I had to make large medical sacrifices along the way. Needless to say student debt in America is out of control. We told kids endlessly that they should chase their dream and become who they want while pulling the rug out from under them and using predatory loaning practices. It's ano…

I don't think making college free would solve the issue. We have this narrative that you need college to get ahead when there are many quality trade schools, on the job training, and (perhaps a bit controversial) the military. I think we need to give seniors the full picture of options.

Re: The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined

#69

Post by stormbrew » Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 11:50 PM UTC

drcode wrote: post #62

thatjsguy wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somebody getting a break doesn’t bring you down, it just brings them up. I’m sorry you had to pay off your loans. I’m paying about $100,000 myself. But even if I didn’t get amnesty, I’d rather not have one more graduate who, like me, has sincerely considered whether simply being dead would be easier to deal with. And there are a lot of people like that. I’d rather be in debt forever if it means that subsequent multit…

> Somebody getting a break doesn’t bring you down, it just brings them up. Well, the assumption here is that the money to "bring them up" can just be materialized out of thin air and doesn't have to be taken from other people, in turn.

The converse of this being the assumption that having a huge number of people stuck with hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt is not itself a drag on society that eventually comes out of other people's pockets one way or another anyways.

"I survived a bad system" is not justification for the perpetuation of that system.

Re: The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined

#70

Post by drcode » Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 11:50 PM UTC

Latty wrote: post #60

drcode wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I must say, as someone who made quite a few sacrifices to pay off my school debt, I'll be pretty miffed if less responsible people from my same generation get a break on their loans.

The attitude of 'I suffered so others should have to' is really damaging. I get why that's the instinctive response, but it's also going to lead to a worse society. By all means argue for a solution that also helps people who made sacrifice in the past, but people who didn't or couldn't being left to suffer is not a solution. To be clear - I get you are not saying you don't want to solve this because of that, but unf…

> I suffered so others should have to

I didn't "suffer", I just fulfilled the obligations I signed up for when I signed up to my loans.