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There's No 'Safe' Level of Alcohol Consumption, Global Study Finds

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Re: There's No 'Safe' Level of Alcohol Consumption, Global Study Finds

#81

Post by DanBC »

frank_s wrote: post #7

One of the good points about alcohol (there aren't many): It is a strong anxiolytic and is readily available 'over the counter' which means people can self-medicate themselves in times of crisis. How many lives has that saved? Most medical studies tell you significantly more about the prejudices of the authors and/or who paid for the study. This one seems no different in that regard. I have an interest in the matter…

> which means people can self-medicate themselves in times of crisis.

> How many lives has that saved?

Alcohol is strongly linked to death by suicide and to self-harm, so no, it's probably killed even more people.

https://documents.manchester.ac.uk/display.aspx?DocID=37560

Re: There's No 'Safe' Level of Alcohol Consumption, Global Study Finds

#82

Post by frank_s »

barking wrote: post #23
frank_s wrote: post #7

One of the good points about alcohol (there aren't many): It is a strong anxiolytic and is readily available 'over the counter' which means people can self-medicate themselves in times of crisis. How many lives has that saved? Most medical studies tell you significantly more about the prejudices of the authors and/or who paid for the study. This one seems no different in that regard. I have an interest in the matter…

I'd like to know why you say you're an alcoholic.

Excellent question.

Part of the problem with drinking alcohol is that the more you start to drink, you can start to realise you are getting into a spiral of decline.

You start to wake up in the mornings needing a drink in order to not feel ghastly and actually function at all. This starts to become a regular occurrence. You feel deeply ashamed that you can no longer control your drinking: it's controlling you. Because you feel ashamed, you then drink more so you no longer feel ashamed.

Welcome to the death spiral of alcohol addiction.

The only way of getting off that spiral is by admitting that you are an alcoholic. Not just to yourself but to your friends and family who may not even be aware that you are struggling.

You need to make it known to them because of the simple fact that you go to some family get together or other social occasion and it usually means alcohol is present (in the UK at least) and it's awkward when you're expected to be drinking and joining in with the festivities. If the folks around you know that you have an alcohol problem, then they wont try and encourage you to drink. If they don't know, then they can think you're some sort of killjoy etc.

Also, I declare myself an alcoholic on a forum like this as a form of public service. Anybody who suffers with an alcohol addiction is pretty much an expert on the matter. Even more so those few of us who are able to talk about it and possibly help others. You also find that you end up helping yourself by talking to others with similar experiences as it can occasionally cast a light on your own problems. It's essentially group therapy in action.

Most alcoholics can't do that, because they're pissed and many simply for the fact that they are lying in an early grave.

Re: There's No 'Safe' Level of Alcohol Consumption, Global Study Finds

#83

Post by DanBC »

jacknews wrote: post #8
DanBC wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are health risks of alcohol. People need to know all cause mortality.

It is an interesting statistic for the whole of society, but most individuals want to know the direct health impact of alcohol separate from the all-cause impact. The headline is misleading - it should say 'there is no safe level of alcohol for the good of society' or something similar. And it is even wrong - if it was possible to limit how much anyone could consume in a day, many of the 'behavioral' risks would go a…

Well, sure, but this is true even of the more direct health risks.

Alcohol increases risks of many different types of cancer. We want to reduce the rates of cancer across a population, so we ask people to drink less.

But what's my particular risk of cancer from alcohol? We have no way of saying. And even if alcohol doubles my risk, if the risk was small to begin with does it matter that it's doubled?

Re: There's No 'Safe' Level of Alcohol Consumption, Global Study Finds

#84

Post by frank_s »

baumgarn wrote: post #60
throwaway917100 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exercise is only useful for people who are self conscious about their bodies. Exercising won't solve stage fright or anxiety due to stammering or have scar on your face. It won't solve anxiety in a person who is generally risk averse and requires a leap of faith to do something.

I think you underestimate the link between physical and mental health. A fit body gives you a different baseline confidence. People react more positive to you. All social things considered, deep down we're all apes, so risk averse behavior might have something to do with a subliminal knowledge that you won't be able to defend yourself physically. Also exercise promotes neurogenesis which is basically the foundation t…

>I think you underestimate the link between physical and mental health.

He's not alone. Most medics do too.

The only way I managed to get off alcohol was by vigorous exercise: cycling many miles and hours in the Yorkshire Dales. That was in '98.

Before that, I found that any stress or anxiety would quickly result in me going back on the bottle.

My uncle was a general practitioner for many decades and he reflected later that at least 50% of his patients presenting with primarily a physical complaint, he'd find the actual pathology, if you did enough digging, was actually primarily psychological in nature.

Re: There's No 'Safe' Level of Alcohol Consumption, Global Study Finds

#85

Post by [deleted] »

thebigspacefuck wrote: post #9
frank_s wrote: post #7

One of the good points about alcohol (there aren't many): It is a strong anxiolytic and is readily available 'over the counter' which means people can self-medicate themselves in times of crisis. How many lives has that saved? Most medical studies tell you significantly more about the prejudices of the authors and/or who paid for the study. This one seems no different in that regard. I have an interest in the matter…

What's the risk of anxiety if not medicated in a time of crisis? Tetsubo cardiomyopathy? A lost night of sleep? Personally I haven't drank in years and have managed my anxiety just fine through other means. It's also a depressant and can make you feel worse. Some of the worst anxiety I've had is after a night of drinking. There's nothing like waking up in a pool of your own vomit after drinking alone and having every…

[deleted]

Re: There's No 'Safe' Level of Alcohol Consumption, Global Study Finds

#86

Post by archagon »

Coincidentally, I'm hoping to release a (simple) iOS app next week that will help keep your drinking under a preset weekly limit. Will automatically add your drinks as calories to HealthKit and pull recent check-ins from Untappd:

https://i.imgur.com/MhJm6Si.png

As an avid craft beer fan, I've been trying to keep my drinking under 120g of pure alcohol a week (which is about 9 standard drinks) by way of a Calca spreadsheet over the past two years. It's been very effective, but a bit annoying to wrangle manually. Figured I'd finally turn it into an actual product.

I think I'll probably release the code under GPL.

Re: There's No 'Safe' Level of Alcohol Consumption, Global Study Finds

#87

Post by lmm »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #45
lmm wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fatuous remark by that professor. Drinking doesn't get you to work etc. Its entirely dispensable. WTF? Work exists to support a fun life, not the other way around.

The car remark is implying drinking is a useful productive thing like driving. Its not the same kind of thing at all.

If it brings people joy then that's the very essence of being useful and productive.

Re: There's No 'Safe' Level of Alcohol Consumption, Global Study Finds

#88

Post by agentdax5 »

nightski wrote: post #38
IshKebab wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are comparable. They're both activities that come with some risk of death, and both activities that we would like to be able to do.

Many drive because it's required to get to their job and survive economically. I'm not sure the same case could be made for alcohol.

What does that have to do with the fact that driving is an activity that carries the risk of death? Necessity is not part of the discussion.

Re: There's No 'Safe' Level of Alcohol Consumption, Global Study Finds

#89

Post by leekyle333 »

refurb wrote: post #4
johnmoberg wrote: post #2

I think it's clear that alcohol consumption is a burden on society, but I think the headline exaggerates matters a bit. The relative risk is only 0.5% greater at one standard drink per day, relative to no alcohol consumption (see figure 5 in the paper.)

Articles like this tend to leave it at “your risk of death increases” without providing any sense as to what the magnitude of the increase is - without that its impossible to just the benefit-risk tradeoff. A major pet peeve of mine.

Population studies seem to be pretty useless unless there is a massive effect ie smoking. .05 increased relative risk was the same for the red meat colon cancer paper.

Re: There's No 'Safe' Level of Alcohol Consumption, Global Study Finds

#90

Post by lern_too_spel »

IshKebab wrote: post #35
QasimK wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drinking and (often, necessary) driving are not comparable, so the commenter could have chosen a better comparison. Edit: Based on comments in this thread, there are a lot of different perspectives on how comparable these two activities are. I still think there are many significantly "better" examples that could have been given.

They are comparable. They're both activities that come with some risk of death, and both activities that we would like to be able to do.

Shooting heroin is also an activity that many would like to do. Wouldn't you agree that shooting heroin is more like drinking alcohol than like driving?
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