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There's No 'Safe' Level of Alcohol Consumption, Global Study Finds

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Re: There's No 'Safe' Level of Alcohol Consumption, Global Study Finds

#41

Post by cwyers »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #17
robbick wrote: post #3

A brilliant excerpt from the end of the bbc article[0]: Yet Prof David Spiegelhalter, Winton Professor for the Public Understanding of Risk at the University of Cambridge, sounded a note of caution about the findings. "Given the pleasure presumably associated with moderate drinking, claiming there is no 'safe' level does not seem an argument for abstention," he said. "There is no safe level of driving, but the govern…

Fatuous remark by that professor. Drinking doesn't get you to work etc. Its entirely dispensable. I read (here) that 10% of liquor stores' customers are half the volume. So the lesson probably applies mostly to those 10% who think "one drink a day" is a reasonable thing. The other 90% are risking very little, especially if they do their drinking at home.

The purpose of a person is far, far more than simply to be able to work.

Re: There's No 'Safe' Level of Alcohol Consumption, Global Study Finds

#42

Post by toomuchtodo »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #24
Nav_Panel wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This gave me an interesting idea for a thought experiment (do NOT read this as a recommendation): imagine the (US) government, instead of discouraging drinking, required a mandatory n (4?) drinks/week to healthy adults, and sent out free drink vouchers. What effects would this policy have on social cohesion (or happiness) among adults? What would the downsides be? EDIT: yes, obvious downsides are obvious. What I find…

Some of us would feel nauseous and ill the rest of our lives

Spend time with your friends drinking a soda while they use your vouchers. Everyone wins.

Re: There's No 'Safe' Level of Alcohol Consumption, Global Study Finds

#43

Post by throwaway917100 »

nightski wrote: post #38
IshKebab wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are comparable. They're both activities that come with some risk of death, and both activities that we would like to be able to do.

Many drive because it's required to get to their job and survive economically. I'm not sure the same case could be made for alcohol.

Many drink because just surviving is not enough to live a fulfilling life.

Re: There's No 'Safe' Level of Alcohol Consumption, Global Study Finds

#44

Post by Eric_WVGG »

raffael-vogler wrote: post #11

> The three leading causes of attributable deaths in this age group were tuberculosis (1·4% [95% UI 1·0–1·7] of total deaths), road injuries (1·2% [0·7–1·9]), and self-harm (1·1% [0·6–1·5]). TBC is still an infectious disease and road injuries are preventable by simply not driving after having had a drink and self-harm is rather unlikely after a bottle of beer. > and the level of consumption that minimises health los…

"road injuries are preventable by simply not driving after having had a drink" Alcohol impairment is a factor in 31% of auto crashes. That’s a pretty big number, but most crashes are caused by aggressive or inattentive drivers.

I thought your line initially read "road injuries are preventable by simply not driving" full stop, I was on board with that.

Re: There's No 'Safe' Level of Alcohol Consumption, Global Study Finds

#45

Post by JoeAltmaier »

lmm wrote: post #31
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fatuous remark by that professor. Drinking doesn't get you to work etc. Its entirely dispensable. I read (here) that 10% of liquor stores' customers are half the volume. So the lesson probably applies mostly to those 10% who think "one drink a day" is a reasonable thing. The other 90% are risking very little, especially if they do their drinking at home.

> Fatuous remark by that professor. Drinking doesn't get you to work etc. Its entirely dispensable. WTF? Work exists to support a fun life, not the other way around.

The car remark is implying drinking is a useful productive thing like driving. Its not the same kind of thing at all.

Re: There's No 'Safe' Level of Alcohol Consumption, Global Study Finds

#46

Post by raffael-vogler »

vilhelm_s wrote: post #30
raffael-vogler wrote: post #11

> The three leading causes of attributable deaths in this age group were tuberculosis (1·4% [95% UI 1·0–1·7] of total deaths), road injuries (1·2% [0·7–1·9]), and self-harm (1·1% [0·6–1·5]). TBC is still an infectious disease and road injuries are preventable by simply not driving after having had a drink and self-harm is rather unlikely after a bottle of beer. > and the level of consumption that minimises health los…

It's not a triviality. The background is that there have been quite a few studied published which claimed that drinking moderately had health benefits over not drinking at all (you see those headlines every now and then, "a glass of wine/week reduces risk of heart attack", or whatever). The statistics behind those studies are a bit dodgy, because they investigate just one disease (heart attacks, say) instead of total…

As far as I know those studies have been falsified by at least one large meta-study (f.x. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26997174) which revealed that those studies (showing benefits of moderate alcohol consumption) are based on a sampling bias. Those studies compare a group N of people who never drink with a group O of people who occasionally drink. Group N usually shows slightly more health issues than group O - hence the conclusion. But the problem is simply that there are reasons why people decide to abstain completely from alcohol. And those reasons are often health issues or problems with alcohol in the past.

From that angle it is a triviality. Alcohol is mildly toxic to almost all organs - of course maximizing health will be achieved by avoiding it entirely.

Re: There's No 'Safe' Level of Alcohol Consumption, Global Study Finds

#47

Post by JoeAltmaier »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #42
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of us would feel nauseous and ill the rest of our lives

Spend time with your friends drinking a soda while they use your vouchers. Everyone wins.

Have you ever actually done that? Its pretty grim. They get more silly and stupid and you don't, and you're looking at the clock and wishing you were someplace else.

Re: There's No 'Safe' Level of Alcohol Consumption, Global Study Finds

#48

Post by throwaway917100 »

baumgarn wrote: post #20
frank_s wrote: post #7

One of the good points about alcohol (there aren't many): It is a strong anxiolytic and is readily available 'over the counter' which means people can self-medicate themselves in times of crisis. How many lives has that saved? Most medical studies tell you significantly more about the prejudices of the authors and/or who paid for the study. This one seems no different in that regard. I have an interest in the matter…

If you suffer from anxiety, cut out all booze and caffeine, and start exercising.

Exercise is only useful for people who are self conscious about their bodies. Exercising won't solve stage fright or anxiety due to stammering or have scar on your face. It won't solve anxiety in a person who is generally risk averse and requires a leap of faith to do something.

Re: There's No 'Safe' Level of Alcohol Consumption, Global Study Finds

#49

Post by eastern »

johnmoberg wrote: post #2

I think it's clear that alcohol consumption is a burden on society, but I think the headline exaggerates matters a bit. The relative risk is only 0.5% greater at one standard drink per day, relative to no alcohol consumption (see figure 5 in the paper.)

The press release says this:

comparing no drinks with one drink a day the risk of developing one of the 23 alcohol-related health problems was 0.5% higher — meaning 914 in 100,000 15–95 year olds would develop a condition in one year if they did not drink, but 918 people in 100,000 who drank one alcoholic drink a day would develop an alcohol-related health problem in a year.

There's a good analysis at https://medium.com/wintoncentre/the-risks-of-alcohol-again-2...

Re: There's No 'Safe' Level of Alcohol Consumption, Global Study Finds

#50

Post by toomuchtodo »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #47
toomuchtodo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spend time with your friends drinking a soda while they use your vouchers. Everyone wins.

Have you ever actually done that? Its pretty grim. They get more silly and stupid and you don't, and you're looking at the clock and wishing you were someplace else.

Not so much anymore because I've got kids now, but previously yes, as a designated driver. Grim? I suppose it's all perspective. Some people go to a therapist, some people go to the pub together.
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