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There's No 'Safe' Level of Alcohol Consumption, Global Study Finds

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Re: There's No 'Safe' Level of Alcohol Consumption, Global Study Finds

#51

Post by QasimK »

jacknews wrote: post #5

I haven't read the study, but going by the reporting, they are conflating different statistics, those of the direct health impact of alcohol, and those of the 'behavioral' impact (which may then have health effects). No doubt there is an increased risk of death, due to alcohol, through drunk-driving (either as perp or victim), street violence and so on. But many of those problems stem from a small percentage of peopl…

The study does break it down (pages 7-8 of the PDF) into various categories including a lot of individual diseases, transport injuries, self-harm, violence, alcohol-use disorders, and even on the other side, the health benefits. The direct health risks, i.e. diseases, assuming you can insulate yourself from the risk of self-harm, unintentional injuries, and other people, can be read off the graph... Barely. However, this is by age and not by amount of drinking.

Re: There's No 'Safe' Level of Alcohol Consumption, Global Study Finds

#52

Post by forgottenpass »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #47
toomuchtodo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spend time with your friends drinking a soda while they use your vouchers. Everyone wins.

Have you ever actually done that? Its pretty grim. They get more silly and stupid and you don't, and you're looking at the clock and wishing you were someplace else.

Speak for yourself.

When I'm on a strict diet I still enjoy the company of my friends when they're drunk and I'm sober. The only frustrating part is that soda water and diet soda kinda suck.

Come to think of it, when I was younger and worked some Saturday mornings I used to be sober at parties often.

Re: There's No 'Safe' Level of Alcohol Consumption, Global Study Finds

#53

Post by dspillett »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #17
robbick wrote: post #3

A brilliant excerpt from the end of the bbc article[0]: Yet Prof David Spiegelhalter, Winton Professor for the Public Understanding of Risk at the University of Cambridge, sounded a note of caution about the findings. "Given the pleasure presumably associated with moderate drinking, claiming there is no 'safe' level does not seem an argument for abstention," he said. "There is no safe level of driving, but the govern…

Fatuous remark by that professor. Drinking doesn't get you to work etc. Its entirely dispensable. I read (here) that 10% of liquor stores' customers are half the volume. So the lesson probably applies mostly to those 10% who think "one drink a day" is a reasonable thing. The other 90% are risking very little, especially if they do their drinking at home.

As he said "given the pleasure presumably associated with moderate drinking" he isn't talking about practical needs such as getting to work. Some people drive for pleasure rather than (or, far more commonly, as well as) to serve practical needs.

The same could be said for any leisure activity: I run, study & practise medieval swordsmanship and other history martial arts (and more modern sports wrestling). Other people play football (UK/Europe/...) or hand-egg (US) or other competitive sports, there is horse riding in various forms (all potentially quite dangerous without adequate experience working with the horses), and dancing (the effects of which may be additive with the risks of alcohol!), and many other activities, all of which have no safe amount if you want to 100% remove risk (unless by some complex statistical analysis you prove that the increase in risk for injury/death due to the activity at the participants current age/health is less than the decrease due to the potential health benefits of the activity).

Re: There's No 'Safe' Level of Alcohol Consumption, Global Study Finds

#54

Post by dspillett »

IshKebab wrote: post #36
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fatuous remark by that professor. Drinking doesn't get you to work etc. Its entirely dispensable. I read (here) that 10% of liquor stores' customers are half the volume. So the lesson probably applies mostly to those 10% who think "one drink a day" is a reasonable thing. The other 90% are risking very little, especially if they do their drinking at home.

Driving may be less dispensable than drinking but it's not like you have to drive, and it's also not like there is no benefit to drinking.

Also, driving is for some not just a practical activity. Perhaps he was specifically referring to driving for pleasure.

Re: There's No 'Safe' Level of Alcohol Consumption, Global Study Finds

#55

Post by cwyers »

The problem with this study is that all nutritional studies are unreliable, and the problem is getting worse.

> These implausible estimates of benefits or risks associated with diet probably reflect almost exclusively the magnitude of the cumulative biases in this type of research, with extensive residual confounding and selective reporting.3 Almost all nutritional variables are correlated with one another; thus, if one variable is causally related to health outcomes, many other variables will also yield significant associations in large enough data sets. With more research involving big data, almost all nutritional variables will be associated with almost all outcomes. Moreover, given the complicated associations of eating behaviors and patterns with many time-varying social and behavioral factors that also affect health, no currently available cohort includes sufficient information to address confounding in nutritional associations.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2698337?ut...

Someone will come out two weeks from now and say booze makes you immortal.

Re: There's No 'Safe' Level of Alcohol Consumption, Global Study Finds

#56

Post by darpa_escapee »

throwaway917100 wrote: post #48
baumgarn wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you suffer from anxiety, cut out all booze and caffeine, and start exercising.

Exercise is only useful for people who are self conscious about their bodies. Exercising won't solve stage fright or anxiety due to stammering or have scar on your face. It won't solve anxiety in a person who is generally risk averse and requires a leap of faith to do something.

> Exercise is only useful for people who are self conscious about their bodies.

This is conjecture.

I have anxiety surrounding public speaking. Exercise helped with baseline anxiety, now I rarely feel like anxiety is a roadblock when I anticipate speaking.

Re: There's No 'Safe' Level of Alcohol Consumption, Global Study Finds

#57

Post by dspillett »

throwaway917100 wrote: post #48
baumgarn wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you suffer from anxiety, cut out all booze and caffeine, and start exercising.

Exercise is only useful for people who are self conscious about their bodies. Exercising won't solve stage fright or anxiety due to stammering or have scar on your face. It won't solve anxiety in a person who is generally risk averse and requires a leap of faith to do something.

> Exercise is only useful for people who are self conscious about their bodies.

Not true according to some studies. Exercise has been shown to have physiological benefits beyond addressing issues about how things look.

I'm no less self conscious about my body in terms of looks now I'm not fat compared to when I was nearly (perhaps actually) obese - I didn't care then and I don't care now, and where I have problems with people I've never thought it was my looks that put them off.

While I don't suffer from social anxiety specifically (I have it, but in "normal" amounts except where cause by the issue I'm about to mention) but I find the symptoms of bi-polar disorder less apparent (or more apparent less often) since improving my physical health and sometimes when they do rear their ugly heads "going for a run" or similar can help.

> Exercising won't solve ... anxiety due to stammering or have scar on your face.

I don't think the last poster was referring to anxiety resulting from such causes (though they were not clear on the matter).

> Exercising won't solve stage fright

If you specifically mean stage fright due to normally stressful situations (work presentations, actually being on a stage, ...) then no, though generally feeling better about yourself can help more generalised social anxiety.

Re: There's No 'Safe' Level of Alcohol Consumption, Global Study Finds

#58

Post by francisofascii »

barking wrote: post #19
hobs wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The GP clearly notes they are an alcoholic, so I wouldn't say the responder is conflating anything.

So what's an alcoholic? Seems to me that almost all drinkers are, seeing as how most of them find it nicer to keep drinking.

It is best measured on continuum, rather than a binary.

Re: There's No 'Safe' Level of Alcohol Consumption, Global Study Finds

#59

Post by kartan »

FabHK wrote: post #37
kartan wrote: post #33

I would like that people saw this as a reality check to another promoted narrative. "Sometimes, beer loves us back too: Studies have suggested that, when consumed in moderation, beer has many health benefits." - http://www.foxnews.com/story/2010/01/15/healthy-beer-drinkin... "Despite the health benefits of moderate drinking, Holahan emphasizes the need for common sense. One or two drinks a day may be beneficial for s…

Just want to point out that in many countries public transport is such that to „drive safe home“ is not a consideration.

Yes, you are completely right. Going Friday night back home in Stockholms tunnelbana can fully confirm this. :)

Re: There's No 'Safe' Level of Alcohol Consumption, Global Study Finds

#60

Post by baumgarn »

throwaway917100 wrote: post #48
baumgarn wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you suffer from anxiety, cut out all booze and caffeine, and start exercising.

Exercise is only useful for people who are self conscious about their bodies. Exercising won't solve stage fright or anxiety due to stammering or have scar on your face. It won't solve anxiety in a person who is generally risk averse and requires a leap of faith to do something.

I think you underestimate the link between physical and mental health. A fit body gives you a different baseline confidence. People react more positive to you. All social things considered, deep down we're all apes, so risk averse behavior might have something to do with a subliminal knowledge that you won't be able to defend yourself physically. Also exercise promotes neurogenesis which is basically the foundation to change your mind and overcome anxiety, depression, addiction...
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