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Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

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Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#261

Post by Shebanator »

threeseed wrote: post #239
madrox wrote: post #214

I worked on an app that is in the same category as Netflix. A week before launch, Apple chose to reject us in spite of months of meetings and reviews with their app teams and assurances we were in-bounds since we were working with them for launch featuring. It came down to the fact we required an email address and password for IAP so you could bring your subscription to the web or other platforms. While everyone else…

> but as a developer whose livelihood is tied to their decisions, I'm tired of being jerked around. I am a developer of a dozen very popular apps and I couldn't disagree more with your position. Developers having a wonderful experience or sustained livelihood isn't the goal here. It's to make sure consumers are protected and cared for. As Tim Cook would put it that's their North Star.

I agree that this is mostly how Apple views things, but what you said doesn't contradict the post you replied to at all. He is a developer whose livelihood is dependent on Apple, and he is tired of being jerked around. Just because Apple doesn't prioritize his problems doesn't make that untrue.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#262

Post by Donzo »

Donzo wrote: post #252
threeseed wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're being a bit disingenuous here. The point of republishing old programs is to make sure they are running against the latest SDK. This is an important aspect for the ecosystem. It forces apps to work properly on the latest OS as well as support technologies like App Thinning. It's not just to mess you around for compliance reasons.

A website from 1996 will look much the same in a modern version of Chrome. Good luck with your SDKs.

I guess what we're seeing here is a developer/development-first ideology versus a platform-first ideology.

Should the developer/development have to resubmit to the benevolent platform? Or should the platform have to support the development that has occurred?

I don't really care, but I know that I'd rather develop somewhere where my contributions aren't under constant threat of being wiped off the landscape.

Again, good luck with the other thing.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#263

Post by dwaite »

bepotts wrote: post #46
peatmoss wrote: post #20

I miss the idea that a platform, applications, and marketplace were not a vertical stack owned by one entity. As a consumer, I’d love to buy a phone, not a content distribution straight jacket.

As a consumer, I love it. I love that I buy an iPhone and Apple doesn't allow any non-trusted binaries to run on my phone, enforces strict style guidelines (the average app just looks better on my iPhone than Android IMO), has one place where all possible apps are, maintains a distribution channels that allows all my apps to be updated easily, and builds hardware and software that is designed to work together. I love…

Android isn't truly open though. Sure, the AOSP is. However, before Gingerbread there were still a lot of advantages reserved for those who entered a commercial relationship - for instance, access to the Google Apps (mail, calendar, chrome).

Post-Gingerbread, Google has put the vast majority of their development into the Google Play APIs, which are not open and are only available to partners. This means that use of things like chromecast (for instance) are restricted to apps distributed through the Play store, and handsets running partner builds of Android.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#264

Post by Donzo »

threeseed wrote: post #259
Donzo wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A website from 1996 will look much the same in a modern version of Chrome. Good luck with your SDKs.

What a hilarious statement to make. Sure a website from 1996 will look the same. It will also have no accessibility, work terribly on mobile, be largely like reading a Word document and have none of the interesting features of modern web sites. Your world is not the world most people want.

The modern browser is quite good at rendering text, just as it was in 1996. The web is largely still about words. What improvement is so important as to strike the words of those from 1996 off the record?

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#265

Post by solarkraft »

eunoia wrote: post #190
wvenable wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine of Microsoft had a similar store to Apple in 1995 with the same restrictions on downloading and executing external code. The web itself could have been killed in the cradle on day one. The fact that you are here typing this reply right now is entirely because of the state of Windows during 98 and XP. It's a balance between security and freedom. You are arguing for the benefit of security while ignoring the ef…

> We're never going to have average users fully technically aware. OP is establishing that there are different types of users with different usage requirements. You and Grandma are very different users. Grandma is probably much better served by an iPad and App Store than a true general computing device. Grandma is also not going to invent the next internet. Maybe we should embrace this dichotomy instead of pretending…

Quite a lot, if there's no easy way to step outside of the walled garden. You could argue that Apple does provide one with their developer efforts, but I'm not sure if that quite cuts it.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#266

Post by tommymachine »

Shebanator wrote: post #261
threeseed wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but as a developer whose livelihood is tied to their decisions, I'm tired of being jerked around. I am a developer of a dozen very popular apps and I couldn't disagree more with your position. Developers having a wonderful experience or sustained livelihood isn't the goal here. It's to make sure consumers are protected and cared for. As Tim Cook would put it that's their North Star.

I agree that this is mostly how Apple views things, but what you said doesn't contradict the post you replied to at all. He is a developer whose livelihood is dependent on Apple, and he is tired of being jerked around. Just because Apple doesn't prioritize his problems doesn't make that untrue.

I don’t think the parent argued that his feelings of frustration are somehow untrue, but was just pointing out that they have to be weighed against the billions of users that Apple decides to prioritize for. Preventing a constant “go to our sketchy website and put in your credit card” experience for IAPs is likely a smart trade off vs a couple weeks of developer frustration surrounding honoring external purchases.

Also, I’m still not clear on how OC’s app was treated differently than others in the space. From his description it doesn’t sound out of the ordinary to me, but I suppose it’s possible I’m misunderstanding something.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#267

Post by solarkraft »

wvenable wrote: post #196
eunoia wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We're never going to have average users fully technically aware. OP is establishing that there are different types of users with different usage requirements. You and Grandma are very different users. Grandma is probably much better served by an iPad and App Store than a true general computing device. Grandma is also not going to invent the next internet. Maybe we should embrace this dichotomy instead of pretending…

There are two problems with this: Both these types of users can't co-exist on the same device type or ecosystem. Grandma might not invent the next internet on an iPad but your kid is also never going to get that opportunity. And secondly, since you can't install the next internet on the iPad, Grandma is never going to get to use it.

I'm pretty ok with OSX and that's an OS that is both noob-friendly and comes with powerful modification features.

I do think both types of users can co-exist on the same platform. People of all knowledge levels use Windows & Android.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#268

Post by sleepychu »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #254
dperfect wrote: post #174

> They are being redirected to the mobile web version of the app and asked to enter payment details with Netflix directly. Sorry, but if Apple's policies are applied consistently (I know they often aren't), this won't fly. I have an app with a basic email/password sign-in screen (the app represents a small part of a larger web-based SaaS product). Apple has rejected my app for including anything in the app that even…

I wonder if it would be possible for developers / other stake holders to launch an investment fund who's sole purpose is buy shares in Apple / Microsoft / etc with the view to influence internal policy. Activist investor style.

Activist investors are a bit of a misnomer, unlike traditional activists these investors are squarely interested in their own investment.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#269

Post by solarkraft »

wvenable wrote: post #213
shuntress wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Both these types of users can't co-exist on the same device type or ecosystem. This is false. An eco system can easily contain a locked down channel for installing programs as well as an open channel to side-load.

The context here is that we're discussing fully locked down platforms.

But that's with the content ofthe argument that a functioning eco system needs to be locked down.

It doesn't really.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#270

Post by fx32s »

akira2501 wrote: post #236
sambroner wrote: post #47

There's two arguments: Apple/Google developed the device, support the platform, built the api, maintain the infrastructure, and market the experience. The other is that app developers have a symbiotic, probably synergistic relationship with the phone makers. Apps are a huge part of the draw of a good platform. My take is that until we decide that a given platform is a monopoly, we let the platforms fight for a larger…

> and market the experience. While locking their devices and users to that experience, or forcing those users to make large-scale security compromises just to avoid it. > My take is that until we decide that a given platform is a monopoly They seem like they are. Is there another app store that iPhone users can use? Android users? Does the operating system on these phones let you easily change your "app store" prefer…

> They seem like they are. Is there another app store that iPhone users can use? Android users? Does the operating system on these phones let you easily change your "app store" preference?

Companies are not forced to change their hardware to run a competitors binaries really. There's choice in platforms which means iOS or Android phones in this case. If this were true every game console was a monopoly.

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