'Coerced into tipping'? How apps are changing the culture of tipping in SF • Hacker News Board

Re: 'Coerced into tipping'? How apps are changing the culture of tipping in SF

#211

Post by tvh » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 8:55 AM UTC

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #184

tvh wrote: post #134

There needs to be a ban and removal of the tipping requirement altogether. I know, easier said than done. I'm just saying, many European countries do not have tips embedded in their culture, and that's a good thing. If I go to a sit-down restaurant, I'm already being marked up for that - before tipping. If I have some food delivered, I'm paying for the delivery service, or I am being marked up on the item's price - b…

How do you ban a social expectation? Tipping is never required , it is just socially expected.

Good point. To answer your question blatantly: by law. Not saying "you can't ever tip". But more to frame the employer/employee contract and prevent the employee relying on tips, and instead having a contractual/legal framework for his salary.

Let me be clear in saying however that I'm not a fan of shaping culture changes by legal requirements. So I'm second guessing myself a little too now, but I really think the culturally accepted tipping expectation is detrimental overall as per my original comment.

Re: 'Coerced into tipping'? How apps are changing the culture of tipping in SF

#212

Post by lazyasciiart » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 3:39 PM UTC

jjeaff wrote: post #96

sfRattan wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, then they're both right-of-center bird flips... My point remains the same: anyone is right to get pissed of about these fees, but tipping less punishes the server and not the owner who instituted the fees. A better solution is to tip normally, ask to speak to the owner (or a manager), explain you will not be patronizing the business again (and why), and then leave.

Agreed, I don't care what their reasons are. It still amounts to a secret, extra charge that you did not know about until after the bill was received. If this happened to me, and it was not clearly posted on the menu that a fee would be added, I would absolutely refuse to pay it.

In Seattle at least, you'd be legally in the right to do so.

Re: 'Coerced into tipping'? How apps are changing the culture of tipping in SF

#213

Post by jjeaff » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 7:29 PM UTC

aeternus wrote: post #182

jjeaff wrote: post #104

I am frustrated with articles like this that keep pushing a higher and higher "acceptable" tip percentage. 20% is not normal. 20% is very high for very good service. 15 years ago, 15% was normal. Now the minimum on these pos pos's is 18. I tip 15% and no more unless service was well above normal. And I have no qualms about hitting 0 for anything that isn't sit down service, including Uber and Lyft. We have to fight t…

SF restaurants now add a healthcare surcharge which ranges from 3-10% (mandatory), then expect a 20% tip on top of that. Pretty ridiculous, I've started subtracting the healthcare surcharge out of what I would normally tip since it seem to vary widely.

Do they clearly advertise the healthcare surcharge with signage or on the menu? Because I would speak to the manager and absolutely refuse to pay a secret add on to the bill.

As for subtracting it from the tip, I don't think that's the right thing to do. You are essentially taking from the employee and giving it to the business owner. But maybe if enough people did that, the employees would revolt.

Re: 'Coerced into tipping'? How apps are changing the culture of tipping in SF

#214

Post by jjeaff » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 7:33 PM UTC

pmiller2 wrote: post #175

jjeaff wrote: post #104

I am frustrated with articles like this that keep pushing a higher and higher "acceptable" tip percentage. 20% is not normal. 20% is very high for very good service. 15 years ago, 15% was normal. Now the minimum on these pos pos's is 18. I tip 15% and no more unless service was well above normal. And I have no qualms about hitting 0 for anything that isn't sit down service, including Uber and Lyft. We have to fight t…

What’s your Uber/Lyft rating these days? I imagine it’s not good if you don’t tip.

4.94

Drivers don't see how much you tipped before leaving the rating on uber. With lyft, they could technically go back and edit your rating within 24 hrs of the ride.

Re: 'Coerced into tipping'? How apps are changing the culture of tipping in SF

#215

Post by aeternus » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 9:29 PM UTC

jjeaff wrote: post #213

aeternus wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SF restaurants now add a healthcare surcharge which ranges from 3-10% (mandatory), then expect a 20% tip on top of that. Pretty ridiculous, I've started subtracting the healthcare surcharge out of what I would normally tip since it seem to vary widely.

Do they clearly advertise the healthcare surcharge with signage or on the menu? Because I would speak to the manager and absolutely refuse to pay a secret add on to the bill. As for subtracting it from the tip, I don't think that's the right thing to do. You are essentially taking from the employee and giving it to the business owner. But maybe if enough people did that, the employees would revolt.

It is usually mentioned in very small print on the back or bottom of the menu.

Part of the healthcare mandate is that the restaurant must provide health insurance coverage for the employee (which was not previously required), so they are benefiting in a way. It probably isn't completely fair to subtract it out, but the majority of restaurants now have this.