Live data from Hacker News

Intel Publishes Microcode Patches, No Benchmarking or Comparison Allowed

perens.com

321–330 of 499 posts

Re: Intel Publishes Microcode Patches, No Benchmarking or Comparison Allowed

#321
post #224
post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: is AMD any better? Do they somehow manage to avoid Spectre / Meltdown without a slowdown?

AMD are not employing these anti-competitive practices (at least at the moment).

I think GP was asking not about the anticompetitive practices but about the actual exploit that Intel is responding to. But you make a good point.

Intel has two faults: one, they made a significant mistake in their chip design, and two, they responded to criticism poorly. AMD did not make the mistake and has responded well to criticism.

Re: Intel Publishes Microcode Patches, No Benchmarking or Comparison Allowed

#322
post #92

Forget benchmarks, how is (iii) (“You will not [...] use or make the Software available for the use or benefit of third parties”) compatible with shared hosting and rented virtual machines, where the provider has to apply the microcode for the benefit of the guests?

Forget shared hosts, how about when I write something for my client on my employers machine? I'm using the software for the benefit of a third party...

I read that license line as that you can't make it available for the benefit of others, not that you can't use it for the benefit of others. But of course that's the logical interpretation and the only one that matters is the worst possible interpretation. I'm not a native English speaker nor lawyer, would be interesting to see another opinion on this.

Re: Intel Publishes Microcode Patches, No Benchmarking or Comparison Allowed

#323
I wish lawmakers would tackle these kind of ridiculous provisions in EULAs. When you purchase something, you own it, and you should be able to do what you want with it.

You shouldn't have to jump through absurd legal hurdles to use and talk about something you legally purchased. These aren't national security secrets for god's sake.

Re: Intel Publishes Microcode Patches, No Benchmarking or Comparison Allowed

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wasn't bell labs part of a very big corporation when they invented basically everything about the modern world?

Bell Labs invented Google, Facebook, etc? Wow, did not know that. But as you say, the labs were a very small, independent part of a very big corporation, which is likely why they did interesting things. The other thing is that they were forced by the government to license transistor patents to others, who actually created almost everything else. By your theory the military invented the internet, so they invented the…

They didn't invent Google and Facebook, but they're responsible for transistors, lasers, Unix, C and C++, CCD digital image sensors, long distance microwave radio relays, the first transatlantic phone cable, MOSFETs, communication satellites, and cell networks.

Not modern internet services no, but all of the infrastructure it's built on is grounded on theirs.

Re: Intel Publishes Microcode Patches, No Benchmarking or Comparison Allowed

#325
post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you loathe Intel after all the lies they have been telling and marketing speaks, you should buy AMD. > If you love Intel still after all, you should still buy AMD, teach them a painful lesson to wake them up. But how do I choose which AMD CPU I need ? Back in my youth p4 and athlon were easy to compare (freq., IPS and a modifier because AMD) but now I can't even tell the differences between any i5/3/7 and when I…

> but now I can't even tell the differences between any i5/3/7 and when I look at AMD names it's as confusing but with a different lingo. They way I see it, I could look at AMD's Core count, Threads and Frequency, As they are clearly labelled, and that is it. On Intel's side you have features turned on and off for different i3/5/7/9, AVX speed difference etc I don't even want to bother looking it up.

> On Intel's side you have features turned on and off for different i3/5/7/9, AVX speed difference etc I don't even want to bother looking it up.

Seriously, Intel has always been way too confusing with their processor lineup. AMD has always been straightforward: leave in the kitchen sink on nearly every CPU and performance scales with price. Not linearly of course, but it's much simpler to choose an AMD CPU.

Re: Intel Publishes Microcode Patches, No Benchmarking or Comparison Allowed

#326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There had been many times I've started in the morning, expecting to work on the results of whatever process I left to run, only to be greeted with an empty desktop. When I review the update settings, they're as negative as I can make them. I shouldn't complain too much, sometimes it kindly starts Visual Studio for me, saving me 20 seconds. It could have asked, or even warned that I'd be wasting my time setting up the…

My favorite story about that: I worked in furnace optimization, giant electric arc furnaces that use half the electrical capacity of a small town generation plant. These things use 'pencil leads' the width of a child, meters long, that strike an electric spark an inch or two in diameter and 12 inches long, from the probe to the pile of recycled steel in the crucible. Melt it for new steel. Anyway we had a PC running…

I love this story and it underscores something I've come to believe very strongly as an engineer:

Complexity is evil.

The benefits of adding complexity rarely outweigh the downsides, especially when the "embodied energy" of both creating and maintaining that complexity and the follow-on complexity it adds to other systems is considered. Making things a lot more complex to save energy is usually a wash (or worse) because of the energy you spend creating and maintaining complexity.

Complexity usually creeps into systems as a result of piecemeal solutions to problems, marketing driven feature-itis, or attempts by engineers to be overly clever and show off. The latter is incredibly common in IT and programming.

http://www.ariel.com.au/jokes/The_Evolution_of_a_Programmer....

Complexity is evil for efficiency, but it's even more evil for security. The number of states a system can enter is an exponential function of the number of variables and linkages in a system. More complex systems are just exponentially more likely to have vulnerabilities for unavoidable combinatorial reasons. The motive for complexity addition doesn't matter, meaning that complexity increases to mitigate security can easily backfire. Furthermore as systems become more complex they become too big to be analyzed, making it much more likely that major security issues are hiding in plain sight and waiting to be discovered. Black hats always have the advantage here because when you attack a system you get instant feedback about whether your attack worked, while security auditing offers no feedback as to whether or not you've closed all the holes.

Complexity tends to accumulate until systems collapse. Getting rid of it is very hard, since users/customers start depending on every feature and nothing can be removed without breaking something.

The x64 architecture seems to be teetering on the brink. AMD's architecture seems better but we'll see.

Re: Intel Publishes Microcode Patches, No Benchmarking or Comparison Allowed

#327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bell Labs invented Google, Facebook, etc? Wow, did not know that. But as you say, the labs were a very small, independent part of a very big corporation, which is likely why they did interesting things. The other thing is that they were forced by the government to license transistor patents to others, who actually created almost everything else. By your theory the military invented the internet, so they invented the…

Google and Facebook would look a lot different without transistors.

And lasers. And Unix. And switched networking. And binary digital computers. And long-haul undersea cables. And the first successful communications satellite. And data networking.

http://blog.tmcnet.com/next-generation-communications/2011/0...

Re: Intel Publishes Microcode Patches, No Benchmarking or Comparison Allowed

#328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

• Updates are not served to me at regular, known intervals. Perhaps it's due to a progressive rollout policy of some kind. • Certain days come up that I, the paying user, do not want to patch on. Microsoft wins this disagreement and I lose. This occurs in a glib fashion with a message like "Hey, just a heads up, we are going to restart your computer" (whether I like it or not). It is my computer, there is no "we!" It…

It has actually been perfectly viable to escape Intel and (especially) Microsoft for a very long time. Lots of people on HN have done so. Buy an AMD machine, install Ubuntu, and you're done.

>gaming PC

>Ubuntu

Hope he likes Mahjong and Tux Racer

Re: Intel Publishes Microcode Patches, No Benchmarking or Comparison Allowed

#329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see there being a market for that. The reason nobody uses FPGAs at the moment is because nobody has them outside of specialized applications. If Intel can release a CPU with a built-in FPGA and everyone has one, software developers will take advantage of them. I can see stuff like video editing programs, compression algorithms, etc taking advantage of that.

The other thing is that they're a nightmare to programme and they're expensive!

Today they are. Programming can be made easier with large frameworks. Cost can be reduced with higher volume.

Re: Intel Publishes Microcode Patches, No Benchmarking or Comparison Allowed

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks but... bear with me https://www.tomshardware.fr/articles/comparatif-cpu-amd-inte... what are those ryzen 3/5/7 TR ?

13xx, 15xx, 17xx, ThreadRipper. For gen 2, that'd be: 23xx, 25xx, 27xx, ThreadRipper. I think they picked the names/numbers to show some kind of equivalence with i3/5/7, but that's not quite it.

Don't forget the 1700X and 1800X.

ThreadRipper is interesting. It requires a different socket than the other desktop processors and is targeted more at workstation class machines.

In servers there are Epyc and Epyc 2.

Post reply on HN