Live data from Hacker News

Intel Publishes Microcode Patches, No Benchmarking or Comparison Allowed

perens.com

281–290 of 499 posts

Re: Intel Publishes Microcode Patches, No Benchmarking or Comparison Allowed

#281
> You will [..] not allow any third party to [..] publish or provide any Software benchmark or comparison test results

I read this as everyone that distributes this has to change THEIR ToS to explicitly disallow THEIR users to provide benchmarks. Surprised any distro distributes this at all.

Re: Intel Publishes Microcode Patches, No Benchmarking or Comparison Allowed

#282
post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What myth? As you say, bigger companies have a harder time innovting.

Yeah, but it's not necessarily related to competion, size is primary factor. At least I believe that was his point.

I think it is related to competition. Lack of competition brings complacency of executives, who think they can get free money for shareholders without having to reinvest into innovation. (And I think that was carlmr's point.)

Of course, if you are bigger, the more likely it is that there is no competition at certain times.

Re: Intel Publishes Microcode Patches, No Benchmarking or Comparison Allowed

#283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you loathe Intel after all the lies they have been telling and marketing speaks, you should buy AMD. > If you love Intel still after all, you should still buy AMD, teach them a painful lesson to wake them up. But how do I choose which AMD CPU I need ? Back in my youth p4 and athlon were easy to compare (freq., IPS and a modifier because AMD) but now I can't even tell the differences between any i5/3/7 and when I…

On the AMD side, there's only 2 generations of Ryzen. Ryzen 1 - slow, medium, fast, elite Ryzen 2 - slow, medium, fast, elite pick the one you need based on pricing/discounts if any. It's not that hard really.

Thanks but... bear with me https://www.tomshardware.fr/articles/comparatif-cpu-amd-inte... what are those ryzen 3/5/7 TR ?

Re: Intel Publishes Microcode Patches, No Benchmarking or Comparison Allowed

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is every consumer device with a display "niche"?

Because they were all 2D. And the idea that GPUs would be used for mobile computing was not obvious.

Maybe 25 years ago. 10 years ago they were commonplace. Intel shipped integrated 3d graphics by no later than 1999:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_810

Re: Intel Publishes Microcode Patches, No Benchmarking or Comparison Allowed

#285
post #276
post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What myth? As you say, bigger companies have a harder time innovting.

Apple / Google / Amazon don’t seem to struggle? Microsoft / IBM and now Intel defintely did. I think it has more to do with the leadership of the company than the size of the company.

Does Google innovate?

-ss

Re: Intel Publishes Microcode Patches, No Benchmarking or Comparison Allowed

#286
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>they've nothing significant to show for all that time and money spent when they were raking it in without a serious competitor. Big companies rarely innovate without competition around.

This is certainly a myth. Everyone knows, including big companies, that as you grow in size you have a harder time innovating. The classic "lean startup" book mentions this issue and gives the example of Intuit's in-house accelerator/incubator. No way Intel doesn't know about it too. https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbestechcouncil/2018/04/19/in...

wasn't bell labs part of a very big corporation when they invented basically everything about the modern world?

Re: Intel Publishes Microcode Patches, No Benchmarking or Comparison Allowed

#287
post #258
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compare the benchmarks for those processors?

Ah, but now we're not allowed to benchmark Intel anymore, so nobody can prove AMD is faster now.

AMD was faster depending on the workload. With these patches, I think AMD being faster is just a given regardless of what you're doing.

Re: Intel Publishes Microcode Patches, No Benchmarking or Comparison Allowed

#288
post #13

I can think of two theories: 1. It's a mistake. Someone in legal got carried away. 2. The performance of the L1TF mitigation is so awful that someone at Intel thought it would be a good idea to try to keep the performance secret. (Which leads to option 2b. The performance of the L1TF mitigation is so awful that somemone at Intel is afraid that Intel could be sued as a result, and they want to mitigate that risk.) I w…

I'd say that it is related to L1TF, but not to keep it secret. It's additional ammunition to use in court when they get sued for performance loss.

> Cloud Company: Your honor, the security flaws in the hardware and microcode provided by the defendant necessitated the installation of updates, also provided by defendant, which resulted in a 30% loss of overall performance. Since our business model is predicated on selling the processing power of computers that have CPUs manufactured by defendant installed, they are liable for this loss in productivity.

> Intel: Your honor, plaintiff could not possibly prove any loss in productivity. If you'll examine Exhibit A, the Intel microcode EULA, you will see that it expressly prohibits benchmarking. Whether plaintiff is claiming they did these benchmarks themselves or a third party did them is immaterial because our license expressly forbids doing so. Plaintiffs need to show a loss of productivity without relying on performance benchmarks and therefore need to show that the workloads prior to and after the microcode has been installed are equivalent and that the results are detrimental.

Now, I don't expect most judges would go for it since EULAs are notoriously weak, but it does give them ammunition to impugn the evidence. It's always possible a judge or jury would listen to that.

Re: Intel Publishes Microcode Patches, No Benchmarking or Comparison Allowed

#289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the AMD side, there's only 2 generations of Ryzen. Ryzen 1 - slow, medium, fast, elite Ryzen 2 - slow, medium, fast, elite pick the one you need based on pricing/discounts if any. It's not that hard really.

Thanks but... bear with me https://www.tomshardware.fr/articles/comparatif-cpu-amd-inte... what are those ryzen 3/5/7 TR ?

13xx, 15xx, 17xx, ThreadRipper.

For gen 2, that'd be:

23xx, 25xx, 27xx, ThreadRipper.

I think they picked the names/numbers to show some kind of equivalence with i3/5/7, but that's not quite it.

Re: Intel Publishes Microcode Patches, No Benchmarking or Comparison Allowed

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just mark every 2nd Tuesday of a month as patch day and you won't have surprises!

> and you won't have surprises They seem to be getting less aggressive, but I've had my machine reboot with less than half an hour of notice. No notice before leaving the machine, return 30 minute later to find it rebooted. So "just mark every 2nd Tuesday of a month as patch day and never leave your machine(s) unattended on that day and you won't have surprises!". I've also had (in a recent month) them reboot overnig…

There had been many times I've started in the morning, expecting to work on the results of whatever process I left to run, only to be greeted with an empty desktop.

When I review the update settings, they're as negative as I can make them.

I shouldn't complain too much, sometimes it kindly starts Visual Studio for me, saving me 20 seconds.

It could have asked, or even warned that I'd be wasting my time setting up the nightly job, only for it to be cancelled midway through for little reason.

Basically, it's just a consumer OS, and shouldn't be used for actual work.

Post reply on HN