Live data from Hacker News

Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

bloomberg.com

371–380 of 474 posts

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it was easier to pin a web page to your home screen, I think this would catch on more. I run a website and I get requests a lot saying "you should have an app!" I ask what the app would do, and they say "what the website does, but stuck on my home screen." It's also unfortunate that web pages have the disadvantage that they have the browser UI around them, so it reduces the space available to the page versus an ap…

> If it was easier to pin a web page to your home screen, I think this would catch on more On iOS, this is literally a two-tap process (share sheet -> add to home screen). I can't speak for the masses, but the reason I don't do it more often is because so many web apps are just bad on mobile. Slow, poor rendering, no attention paid to extended usability...

Modern Progressive Web Apps mostly fix these issues.

When you visit a proper PWA multiple times, your browser is supposed to notice and ask you if you want to save it to the Homescreen.

But you're right, web on mobile is still miserable in general.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Los Angeles has serious grade inflation across the board wrt social ratings. Their yelp reviews are completely unreliable, everything is 4 or 5 stars. I'm used to Chicago where even a great restaurant can have 3 stars because everyone is so picky, and the 4 or 5 stars are reserved for the truly extraordinary.

My opinion is that everyone should get rid of 1-5 stars in favor of "thumbs up/thumbs down" ratings... Wonder if there's any research to support this suggestion...

I fully agree with you, but we all saw how that went for Netflix. Some people are still angry at them for it. But yea, I can't even with good conscience give anything 4 star or less, knowing that it will basically destroy their job. So I only even vote low if it's a truly horrible experience.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They add value by creating a product that has massive scale, reach, usability and quality. They add value by having branded stores that fix the device for you. They add value by developing stable software that gets updated regularly. If you don’t like the product, don’t buy one, it’s that simple. Go buy a cheap Chinese knockoff that doesn’t have developer support for millions of apps, has lousy quality control, if it…

> They add value by creating a product that has massive scale, reach, usability and quality. They add value by having branded stores that fix the device for you. They add value by developing stable software that gets updated regularly. Your rant is misplaced and you've missed the point entirely. I never said Apple adds no value. I think they add quite a bit of value, which is why I've bought a number of their product…

It’s really hard to feel sorry for Amazon, or you, given your whine is you have to go to a web browser to complete your transaction.

In truth, The App Store is far more than a mere payment processor, though it might be best in the world at that. The costs of hosting, distributing and updating two million apps across hundreds of localized stores, and also vetting every release and update for those millions of apps, is immense.

All their work makes the App Store easy and safe to use anywhere in the world and that helps developers sell more apps.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#374
post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Los Angeles has serious grade inflation across the board wrt social ratings. Their yelp reviews are completely unreliable, everything is 4 or 5 stars. I'm used to Chicago where even a great restaurant can have 3 stars because everyone is so picky, and the 4 or 5 stars are reserved for the truly extraordinary.

Do you find Yelp helpful? I find Yelp so strange with complaints about how someplace that really doesn't do someone's favorite food style gets some stupid reviews.... or they wish a place was more like a place that is 3x more expensive (how is that fair?). I just have no clue where anyone is coming from. We had a Neapolitan pizza place open up in in our neighborhood. Great ingredients, amazing Neapolitan pizza. It wa…

> I need some elitist type review system I think ;)

Then you shouldn't "ask" random people you don't even know. That elitist type review system is anything from a newspaper with an established critic, to a Michelin Guide. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelin_Guide

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being locked down is the source of the value on many cases. Being locked down and curated means that when someone looks for an app they find that app, and not that app and a dozen lookalikes with similar names, half of which are outright malware. Being locked down and curated means that stuff just works and does so predictably, and will continue to work. That’s the value add IMO, not the aluminum case, the Apple logo…

> Being locked down is the source of the value on many cases. ... Being locked down and curated means that stuff just works and does so predictably, and will continue to work. The Apple App Store does not fill all those conditions. In fact, I can safely say it does not do some of things you say, including the part about stuff just working.

The Apple App store isn’t perfect, it just works better and has less malware than any App Store in the history of the world.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#376

Doesn't Valve take 30% from games on Steam? But they're complaining Apple taking 30% is too much? I also don't really think the Apple/Google fee is that unreasonable. Considering the resources, tools, marketplaces, tutorials, payment processing, all the other All dev stuff they provide in general. Yes if your app goes big, they make a lot of money. But for every big app there's something like 9 that fail completely (…

30% seems a lot when BlueSnap/Avangate/FastSpring provide most of the same services for 6-8%. Of course Apple would argue that they are connecting you to their customers. When there are a million apps in the store I'm not sure how true that is.

Payment processing is the smallest part of what the Google and Apple App stores provide, your comparison is ludicrous.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#377
post #325
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Instead of rectifying this via monopoly abuse laws, there should be regulations applicable to all hardware providers for allowing alternative software distribution mechanisms.

You want to make it illegal for someone to make a piece of hardware that can only run binaries signed by the manufacturer? I can’t understand this at all. If I go through the trouble to create a product and I want to control the user experience for that product, that’s my right and privilege. The market will decide if they want to purchase my product or not. Consumers have spoken, and spoken extremely loudly, that th…

> You want to make it illegal for someone to make a piece of hardware that can only run binaries signed by the manufacturer?

I'm not sure why this is supposed to be controversial. It's not a prohibition on checking signatures, it's just a requirement to give the user the option of doing something else.

Once you sell something it's not yours anymore. Companies shouldn't be allowed to stick up everyone in an ancillary market just because they have more market power.

> I can’t understand this at all. If I go through the trouble to create a product and I want to control the user experience for that product, that’s my right and privilege. The market will decide if they want to purchase my product or not.

That's assuming that markets are perfect. What you're saying would be true if there were two versions of the iPhone, one that could only run signed apps and one that was exactly the same but can also run unsigned apps and the customer chose the first one. But that isn't the case, and because that isn't the case you end up forcing someone who wants an iPhone for a reason other than mandatory signing to accept mandatory signing (and the consequent app store monopoly) even though they don't want it. That isn't the market deciding, it's the manufacturer deciding for the market.

> Consumers have spoken, and spoken extremely loudly, that they like Apple’s approach.

This is not really supported by the evidence. The large majority of phone customers chose Android and even among iPhone customers there are multiple other reasons (hardware, UI, status signaling) to choose an iPhone even if you don't want or don't care about app gatekeeping.

The fact that customers don't want it is the whole issue. The first time most users are given a choice between installing an app they want that isn't approved or not having the app, they're going to install it. And given a choice between a distribution method that restricts apps and then charges 30% more and one that doesn't and has lower prices, they're going to pick the lower prices. Otherwise Apple wouldn't have to lock all the doors and windows from the outside -- you could just choose to never install anything outside Apple's store, even if you had the option to do otherwise.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Los Angeles has serious grade inflation across the board wrt social ratings. Their yelp reviews are completely unreliable, everything is 4 or 5 stars. I'm used to Chicago where even a great restaurant can have 3 stars because everyone is so picky, and the 4 or 5 stars are reserved for the truly extraordinary.

My opinion is that everyone should get rid of 1-5 stars in favor of "thumbs up/thumbs down" ratings... Wonder if there's any research to support this suggestion...

has anyone tried competitive rankings? like hot or not ?

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#380
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Additionally, Unreal Engine 4 charges only 5% gross on revenue exceeding 3,000 USD per quarter. Epic's CEO tweeted about these markets taking 30% where other transaction facilitators only take 2-5%. https://mobile.twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/89831654549... It feels like in tech there are a ton of leech-like companies attempting to leverage their way into middleman positions and then rest on their laurels while…

Calling Apple a transaction facilitator is a ludicrous way to try to downplay what they actually do. They aren’t just a transaction processer, that’s the cheapest and easiest part of their job. They also host petabytes of apps in hundreds of geographically dispersed and localized app stores, and covers all bandwidth for distributing and updating those apps. And unlike google Apple actually reviews every release of ev…

Apple made $11 billion from apps in 2017. I doubt they spent more than $1B on app distribution. You d have to add research costs to go up to 10%.
Post reply on HN