Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 474 posts

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#171

Post by UncleMeat »

madrox wrote: post #160
cgriswald wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steam does not sell me a locked down hardware platform preventing me from buying the software directly from the publisher. Nor does Steam force me to buy DLC through Steam, I am free to buy the DLC directly from the publisher. Steam gets a cut of what I buy from Steam and I am not locked into buying from Steam in order to make my PC useful. Apple sells me a locked down hardware platform that requires me to go through…

Steam is also adding a lot of value for that rev-share. A social network...kickstart-esque backing of projects...cloud saves...great search and discoverability. There is a reason why developers choose Steam even though they operate on platforms that don't require it.

And mobile stores offer search, promotion, distribution, and analytics.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#172

Post by vram22 »

muro wrote: post #157
bangonkeyboard wrote: post #33

"App Store fees got you down? Meanwhile at Epic, they lowered their take on the Unreal Marketplace from 30% to 12% and retroactively paid back years of fees. "Epic said this is due to the success of Fortnite. If only Apple and Google had successful products to rely on for income." — https://twitter.com/agilethumbs/status/1029804861477412865

EC told Google that income from PlayStore should be enough for them to make money on Android. Edit: EC == European Commission

Who is EC in this context? The Epic mentioned above, or something else?

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#173

Post by yayana »

ksec wrote: post #159

I don't have a problem Apple charging game developers 30%, I have a problem with Apple not caring about the gaming development and has comparatively speaking, almost zero contribution to the gaming communities. From improving drivers, middle wares, to that idiotic Game Center. I don't have a problem with Apple charging Netflix 30% for access, I have a problem with these subscription tax every month that Apple collect…

As an end user you feel like you don't care only since you can't see that you are always paying more for worse services due to the 30% gardens.

It is similar to the hard fought American Express tax. Vendors needing to pay 2% if the customer is using Amex and not being allowed to pass it on to the specific user meant raising their prices 2% (or spending 2% less on content) for all users.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#174

Post by Nasrudith »

Really the only reason they can charge their percentage is their critical mass - they have a high degree of customer volume that rolling their own won't match unless they are already big names.

It is a bit of an ironic "meet the new boss" with publication considering there isn't a high capital requirement in itself. Technically marketing can help but reputation is far more fundamental - look at bing failing to be a Google rival despite subsidies from Microsoft. It isn't quite like the XBox where throwing money at the problem can establish a big name niche.

Tech serms to have a strange habit of winding up in technically easy to enter but hard to compete markets.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#175

Post by cgriswald »

clay_the_ripper wrote: post #62
cgriswald wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steam does not sell me a locked down hardware platform preventing me from buying the software directly from the publisher. Nor does Steam force me to buy DLC through Steam, I am free to buy the DLC directly from the publisher. Steam gets a cut of what I buy from Steam and I am not locked into buying from Steam in order to make my PC useful. Apple sells me a locked down hardware platform that requires me to go through…

They add value by creating a product that has massive scale, reach, usability and quality. They add value by having branded stores that fix the device for you. They add value by developing stable software that gets updated regularly. If you don’t like the product, don’t buy one, it’s that simple. Go buy a cheap Chinese knockoff that doesn’t have developer support for millions of apps, has lousy quality control, if it…

> They add value by creating a product that has massive scale, reach, usability and quality. They add value by having branded stores that fix the device for you. They add value by developing stable software that gets updated regularly.

Your rant is misplaced and you've missed the point entirely. I never said Apple adds no value. I think they add quite a bit of value, which is why I've bought a number of their products. I am talking about a specific case for which Apple thinks it is due 30%.

Apple does not add value by inserting itself into a transaction I am trying to conduct with Amazon. I've already paid for all the value. First to Apple for the device, and then to Amazon for the data. Am I or Amazon supposed to pay Apple for my use of the device as well? And if so... where is the value added?

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#176

Post by sonnyblarney »

scarface74 wrote: post #170
sonnyblarney wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, justifying price based on cost is usually valid because of real competitive pressures in the world. Very few things deviate too far from underlying costs. Apple is a rare special case that has a lot of market power and brand premium. Retail stores take on massive working capital and inventory costs. Of course their 'cut' is going to be higher, and it will be the same in every other retail chain because of the sim…

And that’s why if your business is based on selling a commodity like Android phones and PCs, you’re stuck selling low margin products where you can compete on price. That also explains why it’s impossible to make real money selling either Android phones or Windows computers.

"it’s impossible to make real money selling either Android phones or Windows computers"

No. 99% (well not quite, but most) of the economy works this way. It's almost an entirely thin margin business world. Very, very few companies are making sweet margins unless there is some sneaky reason i.e. political patronage, niche markets, etc. etc.. Drugs and Healthcare work on high margins depending on how you look at it. But agriculture, natural resources, almost everything manufactured, entertainment, restaurants, transportation, energy ... hosting (!) most things are low margin businesses.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#177

Post by monocularvision »

dawhizkid wrote: post #76

Is there a SaaS opportunity here? Helping developers create a frictionless experience redirecting customers to an optimized web view to complete payment and then back to the app in a seamless way?

Not on iOS at least. You can’t directly take them to a payment web form. You will see that most apps that bypass App Store payments give some text about how they need to go to a website (which is not clickable) to perform the action. Opening up a browser for them will get you rejected.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#178

Post by ThrustVectoring »

worldsayshi wrote: post #162
cptaj wrote: post #135

And they should. We are fast approaching a world where all markets are walled-in by a few international companies. I've had clients of mine go under because Amazon decided to close their accounts and they depend on the platform to sell their wares. Imagine how hard it is to sell stuff online if you're barred from ebay and amazon... and there is no legal recourse to appeal those bans. Same goes for app stores, what ha…

In part I think it's important to think about how to make and keep a healthy culture of labour unions. There needs to be counter balance to corporate power. Especially in blue collar sectors. I guess gig unions could be a thing? Can we build apps for worker coordination? What if there was a way for all Uber drivers to coordinate global strikes? We should be open for regulation that protect the rights of workers to un…

One of the big problems with forming a gig worker union is the same problem with gig work in general; you're disconnected with your coworkers and other firm participants.

Uber can press a button in response to a strike and send out a push notification to potential scabs offering a bribe to cross the digital picket line. The strikers both don't know and can't efficiently tell who scabs are, and as such can't put pressure for solidarity on them.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#179

Post by Camillo »

vram22 wrote: post #172
muro wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EC told Google that income from PlayStore should be enough for them to make money on Android. Edit: EC == European Commission

Who is EC in this context? The Epic mentioned above, or something else?

Probably the European Commission.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#180

Post by jeff_carr »

cptaj wrote: post #135

And they should. We are fast approaching a world where all markets are walled-in by a few international companies. I've had clients of mine go under because Amazon decided to close their accounts and they depend on the platform to sell their wares. Imagine how hard it is to sell stuff online if you're barred from ebay and amazon... and there is no legal recourse to appeal those bans. Same goes for app stores, what ha…

[flagged]
Post reply on HN