Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

341–350 of 474 posts

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#341

Post by maym86 »

mrep wrote: post #298
dangjc wrote: post #70

Maybe Apple and Google should be paying app makers instead considering how much more valuable their phones become BECAUSE of apps. If there was perfect competition between more than two OS makers, I'd predict the charge would be closer to 0. Without it, we can only stab into the air to guess what the real clearing price would be.

For IOS, that would make sense but the play store is basically the only way (with the recent EU fine) that google can make money on android.

Android is a platform that allows Google to target advertising and collects user data. The original intent was to make sure mobile users use Google products. They can and do make money from that.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#342

Post by scarface74 »

freehunter wrote: post #322
scarface74 wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most non game apps shouldn't be apps. They should be web pages. It would be faster development and you wouldn't be dependent on the app stores. A torrent remote app would never be allowed on the IOS app store, but going to https://remote.vuze.com and pairing your Vuze app can't be banned....

If it was easier to pin a web page to your home screen, I think this would catch on more. I run a website and I get requests a lot saying "you should have an app!" I ask what the app would do, and they say "what the website does, but stuck on my home screen." It's also unfortunate that web pages have the disadvantage that they have the browser UI around them, so it reduces the space available to the page versus an ap…

Safari has supported “add to home screen since day one.” As far as web pages supporting notifications. It’s already being abused for spam.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#343

Post by jasonlotito »

DmenshunlAnlsis wrote: post #266
Steko wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People keep saying Apple adds no value but bringing millions of paying customers and a trusted storefront does in fact have lots of value for most apps. This is exactly the value Steam brings on PC. Being locked down or not is a red herring to the value argument, people sell on Steam because of simple math: the millions of additional paying customers outweighs the commission Valve demands.

Being locked down is the source of the value on many cases. Being locked down and curated means that when someone looks for an app they find that app, and not that app and a dozen lookalikes with similar names, half of which are outright malware. Being locked down and curated means that stuff just works and does so predictably, and will continue to work. That’s the value add IMO, not the aluminum case, the Apple logo…

> Being locked down is the source of the value on many cases. ... Being locked down and curated means that stuff just works and does so predictably, and will continue to work.

The Apple App Store does not fill all those conditions. In fact, I can safely say it does not do some of things you say, including the part about stuff just working.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#344

Post by jsjohnst »

paulddraper wrote: post #331
jsjohnst wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All Apple has to do to offer an alternative is let people install Apps on their phones outside the App Store This exists now and is free. I’m not saying it’s a good user experience (especially the one week limitation), but it’s definitely possible and legit / legal / free.

> not saying it’s a good user experience Why do you think that is?

I apologize, but I don’t understand your question. Can you clarify?

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#345

Post by ddingus »

avar wrote: post #193
cptaj wrote: post #135

And they should. We are fast approaching a world where all markets are walled-in by a few international companies. I've had clients of mine go under because Amazon decided to close their accounts and they depend on the platform to sell their wares. Imagine how hard it is to sell stuff online if you're barred from ebay and amazon... and there is no legal recourse to appeal those bans. Same goes for app stores, what ha…

It's really screwed up even as a consumer. E.g. for things like Uber I've taken to always rating 5 stars regardless of my experience, because even if I have something bad to say do I really want to so nonchalantly be a cog in the machine of potentially robbing someone of their livelyhood?

That is how I play it too. These systems will not end well in my opinion.

Someone above mentioned due process. I second that. What we have right now is no where near robust enough.

So, I will have a friendly conversation with someone. The human means, ways, methods work well and are time tested, production proven.

5 stars, unless it is really bad, and they do not have some cause for that being the case.

Honestly, the income is thin, many of these people are working their asses off, and is that not harsh enough?

Not much to like in all of it.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#346

Post by snoman »

amerkhalid wrote: post #335
jolmg wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't downvote, but I think cptaj's point was to "unsabotage" the rating system. Ideally, the 5-star rating system should work like: - 1-star means Awful - 2-star means Bad - 3-star means OK - 4-star means Good - 5-star means Excellent That means no one should have any problem using something rated 3 or above. However, by "[shopping] for that 5-star rating and [punishing] anyone with a 4", the rating system ends u…

There is another big negative about using ratings when dining out that no one talks about. My friends and I were recently discussing how we haven't had a bad experience in any restaurant in awhile. But now we are so used to really good restaurants that it is extremely rare to get amazed by any restaurant. If we compare this to our experiences in pre-Yelp era, it was so exciting to discover an amazing restaurant. Sure…

I don't know. Sounds like the ratings might just be working.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#347

Post by ddingus »

freehunter wrote: post #322
scarface74 wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most non game apps shouldn't be apps. They should be web pages. It would be faster development and you wouldn't be dependent on the app stores. A torrent remote app would never be allowed on the IOS app store, but going to https://remote.vuze.com and pairing your Vuze app can't be banned....

If it was easier to pin a web page to your home screen, I think this would catch on more. I run a website and I get requests a lot saying "you should have an app!" I ask what the app would do, and they say "what the website does, but stuck on my home screen." It's also unfortunate that web pages have the disadvantage that they have the browser UI around them, so it reduces the space available to the page versus an ap…

I just checked and Chrome on recent Android offers it.

I just pinned a few sites I use.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#348

Post by ddingus »

jpeloquin wrote: post #319
pcmaffey wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We engineers could also develop more intelligent and robust rating systems.

Perhaps old ratings should be removed or down-weighted in the system as time passes. This would make the ratings better reflect current levels of quality, (a) helping people learn and recover from mistakes and (b) keeping people from coasting on past success while reducing quality. Not sure how to get general users to rate with 1-star = bad, 3-stars = ok, and 5-stars = great. Sounds like a social engineering problem.…

Meta reviews would be great, but are expensive due to having to basically repeat an experience.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#349

Post by sk5t »

akura wrote: post #277
baby wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good chinese restaurants in London (like my old place) end up having less than 4 stars because of service. I find that raging since the food is the only thing that should matter.

It's fair enough that people will rate according to their expectations. Curt, even surly service is pretty much trademark for Chinese/Vietnamese restaurants in my mind. I find the notion of "good service" actually a little overbearing sometimes honestly

The best servers are there when you need them, are paying attention so you rarely have to wait or wave, and are wonderfully absent when you do not need them. The manager coming 'round to confirm quality of service is a bad sign (new place or struggling). Surly should never enter the picture unless it's a theme restaurant based on belittling the customers.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#350

Post by Tomte »

throwawaymath wrote: post #148
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a term that exists specifically to define things like "provides access to Apple's user base". It's called "rent-seeking".

You're stating that as though it's an argument, but I honestly don't follow the point you're trying to make. Under the rent-seeking analogy, yes, Apple built a vast and lucrative apartment complex. Are you saying it's unreasonable to charge a high fee to allow someone to solicit to the people living in that complex on the property it owns and developed? I get the sense we're not going to be able to come to an underst…

Economic rent is not about renting an apartment. It‘s a terminus technicus.
Post reply on HN