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Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

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Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#271

Post by scarface74 »

cgriswald wrote: post #45
ObsoleteNerd wrote: post #10

Doesn't Valve take 30% from games on Steam? But they're complaining Apple taking 30% is too much? I also don't really think the Apple/Google fee is that unreasonable. Considering the resources, tools, marketplaces, tutorials, payment processing, all the other All dev stuff they provide in general. Yes if your app goes big, they make a lot of money. But for every big app there's something like 9 that fail completely (…

Steam does not sell me a locked down hardware platform preventing me from buying the software directly from the publisher. Nor does Steam force me to buy DLC through Steam, I am free to buy the DLC directly from the publisher. Steam gets a cut of what I buy from Steam and I am not locked into buying from Steam in order to make my PC useful. Apple sells me a locked down hardware platform that requires me to go through…

Apple sells me a locked down hardware platform that requires me to go through them for all software purchases and all data purchases made with that software.

A. You can choose to buy an Android phone like 80%+ of the smart phone world.

B. You can buy content outside of the Apple store and use it within the app (Amazon, Udemy, Spotify, Google Play Music, every video streaming service, etc.)

It seems unreasonable to me that Apple should get a cut of my Amazon Video purchases.

They don't, in fact you can't buy Amazon content within the app.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#272

Post by scarface74 »

giovannibajo1 wrote: post #84
jimbokun wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it, if you already have a subscription for Amazon Video through the web, then download the Amazon Video app and login to your existing account, Apple doesn't get anything. Which is why the article emphasized Netflix trying to get customers to sign up through their web site, and not the app.

Correct. Apple gets a cut if a customer subscribes through the in-app one-click subscription, which is extremely convenient for any iPhone user (and thus app publishers) because it’s a single click rather than having to insert credit cards, 3D secure and whatnot. In this case the cut is 30% on the first year and 10% afterwards. If the user subscribes through the website, Apple gets nothing. I find this fair. What is…

What is more unfair is that Apple forbids apps to open/link websites where subscriptions can be done to “workaround” the iTunes subscription.

Slight anecdote, because of that policy, Amazon doesn't support links to Amazon from Kindle Books. Which is fine 99.999% of the time. Until you buy a book about AWS and you can't click on any of the links to documentation on Amazon's websites....

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#273

Post by CaptSpify »

kristofferR wrote: post #78
makecheck wrote: post #32

The 30% cut would have been reasonable after all this time if the platforms were doing anything useful with the money. Instead, we got: - Store APIs that to this day are stupidly complex to get right in all cases, making you wonder why it’s so hard - No support for very common, decades-old pricing schemes like “free demo, then buy” (except through convoluted means) - Stagnant app store designs (esp. Mac, for YEARS) -…

The iOS App Store design is pretty awesome actually. It got a total design revamp last year in iOS 11 [1], and it's coming to macOS Mojave in a couple of months, so to claim the design is stagnant is incorrect. It's fluid, and has great use of typography, spacing and colors. I don't see how it is criticize the design of it, the design is the best part. The missing features (like demo versions not being possible) etc…

I'm sorry, but I could not disagree more. I've only used the store once, and it was just awful.

The search was crap, the recommended apps were crap, the way the data was presented is horrible, etc. I didn't downvote you, but it seems obvious to me that their tools and design were not intended with UX in mind, but profits.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#274

Post by tajen »

opportune wrote: post #201
ThrustVectoring wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the big problems with forming a gig worker union is the same problem with gig work in general; you're disconnected with your coworkers and other firm participants. Uber can press a button in response to a strike and send out a push notification to potential scabs offering a bribe to cross the digital picket line. The strikers both don't know and can't efficiently tell who scabs are, and as such can't put press…

Some would say this is the killer-app of gig platforms - the picket lines and scabs are almost invisible, and workers are completely disconnected from each other unless they seek each other out. Makes organization and striking very hard

Honest question: Is there any upside to the organization of strikes?

I’m from France and what I see is mostly people in a position of blackmailing society do strike. To the question of whether it improves working conditions, it seems as if it improved them, but at the expense of 1. underrepresented colleagues and 2. the taxpayer. If underrepresented colleagues (whom I used to be part of before I quit) are any meaningful part, then the results of strikes are at the expense of the majority of society.

It’s great that I have 7.5 weeks of holidays, but they are also mandatory... so much that a net salary for an engineer is 2000€ net pm. It’s like... a joke. “Everyone is poor” is France, compared to other countries I’ve lived in with fewer taxes and friction.

Strikes, more than ever, seem to be the imposition on weaker workers of the force of stronger workers. The benefits of the strikes are taken at the expense of all workers. It doesn’t improve the economy and adds friction, slowing down the economy. And what the new economy brings to me is so much more reliability of services, since they’re not on strike every second day or shut down at 3.30pm every first day. I like the no-strike economy, because I see what people suffer through in the strike economy. Besides, parties who organize strikes also organize to shut down free speech events, so strike isn’t compatible with free speech.

Is the fact that Uber doesn’t have strikes a pure bonus of the platform?

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#275

Post by CommanderData »

cptaj wrote: post #135

And they should. We are fast approaching a world where all markets are walled-in by a few international companies. I've had clients of mine go under because Amazon decided to close their accounts and they depend on the platform to sell their wares. Imagine how hard it is to sell stuff online if you're barred from ebay and amazon... and there is no legal recourse to appeal those bans. Same goes for app stores, what ha…

I can't think of a good counter argument to balance this. There are forums filled with people who have essentially been blacklisted from the 'internet' after being barred from Google search for whatever reason.

Some removed without explanation and assumed it is because they competed with Alphabet in some way.

Scary to think two or three companies effectively have total control over your digital business and you have basically zero rights without any course for appeal, you're absolutely at the mercy of good will if there is any (often none).

Regulation is needed here, the old 'regulate thy self' is a sham soundbite, proven time and time again.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#276

Post by fishywang »

avar wrote: post #193
cptaj wrote: post #135

And they should. We are fast approaching a world where all markets are walled-in by a few international companies. I've had clients of mine go under because Amazon decided to close their accounts and they depend on the platform to sell their wares. Imagine how hard it is to sell stuff online if you're barred from ebay and amazon... and there is no legal recourse to appeal those bans. Same goes for app stores, what ha…

It's really screwed up even as a consumer. E.g. for things like Uber I've taken to always rating 5 stars regardless of my experience, because even if I have something bad to say do I really want to so nonchalantly be a cog in the machine of potentially robbing someone of their livelyhood?

That's one of the reasons I put my neighbours' address as my home address on Uber/Lyft (the other being I don't really trust them as a company, especially Uber).

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#277

Post by akura »

baby wrote: post #247
michaelchisari wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Los Angeles has serious grade inflation across the board wrt social ratings. Their yelp reviews are completely unreliable, everything is 4 or 5 stars. I'm used to Chicago where even a great restaurant can have 3 stars because everyone is so picky, and the 4 or 5 stars are reserved for the truly extraordinary.

Good chinese restaurants in London (like my old place) end up having less than 4 stars because of service. I find that raging since the food is the only thing that should matter.

It's fair enough that people will rate according to their expectations.

Curt, even surly service is pretty much trademark for Chinese/Vietnamese restaurants in my mind. I find the notion of "good service" actually a little overbearing sometimes honestly

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#278

Post by throwaway_7003 »

cptaj wrote: post #135

And they should. We are fast approaching a world where all markets are walled-in by a few international companies. I've had clients of mine go under because Amazon decided to close their accounts and they depend on the platform to sell their wares. Imagine how hard it is to sell stuff online if you're barred from ebay and amazon... and there is no legal recourse to appeal those bans. Same goes for app stores, what ha…

> Regulation is a very very touchy subject, ... We need real due process.

What scares me even shitlesser is that the legislative and regulatory momentum is pointing in the wrong direction. Governments and political movements are calling on platforms to policing their users more tightly along various axes. They are doing little or nothing to help folks act independently on the net.

I share your intuition that any good solution will involve government action. But if we just shout "there oughtta be a law" then law we get will do the opposite of what we want.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#279

Post by mrep »

scarface74 wrote: post #271
cgriswald wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steam does not sell me a locked down hardware platform preventing me from buying the software directly from the publisher. Nor does Steam force me to buy DLC through Steam, I am free to buy the DLC directly from the publisher. Steam gets a cut of what I buy from Steam and I am not locked into buying from Steam in order to make my PC useful. Apple sells me a locked down hardware platform that requires me to go through…

Apple sells me a locked down hardware platform that requires me to go through them for all software purchases and all data purchases made with that software. A. You can choose to buy an Android phone like 80%+ of the smart phone world. B. You can buy content outside of the Apple store and use it within the app (Amazon, Udemy, Spotify, Google Play Music, every video streaming service, etc.) It seems unreasonable to me…

Amazon does not offer you the option because the only way they could offer it is if they gave Apple their 30% cut. Same super annoying reason you cannot buy books in the kindle app.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#280

Post by AnthonyMouse »

DmenshunlAnlsis wrote: post #234
stale2002 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, Walmart owns those stores. Phones, on the other hand, are owned by the people who purchase them. And those people who own the phones have the full right to do whatever they want with them.

You can do whatever you want with your iPhone too, including rooting it, or throwing out of a moving car. Apple can then choose to support it, or not. In the same way that you can buy a given make and model of car and mod it into a dragster, or a tractor if you want to. Apple sells iPhones, and own their store which you can choose to access from your iPhone, or not if you prefer. In addition you can get all of the be…

> You can do whatever you want with your iPhone too, including rooting it

Not according to Apple.

> Why not force them to sell from other outlets, since they’re a monopoly in your fantastical estimation?

They're not a monopoly because the other stores already have products that are adequate substitutes. People can buy a different brand of laundry detergent from a different store without having to replace their washing machine.

> If I wanted to use the phone lines, I could pay whatever they wanted or train carrier pigeons.

Not true -- if you wanted to use phone line all you would have to do is go to Canada where they have non-AT&T phone lines and use them there.

Obviously it isn't very practical to leave the country every time you want to make a phone call, but how is that any different than needing to buy a new phone every time you want to buy an app?

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