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Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

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Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#331

Post by paulddraper »

jsjohnst wrote: post #304
cgriswald wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be suggesting the only alternative to the App Store is a janky Apple-run Open App Store. All Apple has to do to offer an alternative is let people install Apps on their phones outside the App Store just like they can do on their Macs. People will still trust the App Store, but maybe a competitor comes along and maybe Netflix/Amazon etc use them or maybe they don’t.

> All Apple has to do to offer an alternative is let people install Apps on their phones outside the App Store This exists now and is free. I’m not saying it’s a good user experience (especially the one week limitation), but it’s definitely possible and legit / legal / free.

> not saying it’s a good user experience

Why do you think that is?

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#332

Post by fjsolwmv »

WilliamEdward wrote: post #47
bangonkeyboard wrote: post #33

"App Store fees got you down? Meanwhile at Epic, they lowered their take on the Unreal Marketplace from 30% to 12% and retroactively paid back years of fees. "Epic said this is due to the success of Fortnite. If only Apple and Google had successful products to rely on for income." — https://twitter.com/agilethumbs/status/1029804861477412865

I really like that. I think the first thing people should do when making a startup is finding a consistent revenue stream and business model. Most companies are actually more about the model than the idea. Hell, even Nike only makes about 6% of profit on their $100 shoes. They can do this because they have a consistent and reliable business model (aka not advertisement income). It's not even the shoes anymore. it's t…

6% profit after paying the salaries of everyone involved in manufacturing, marketing, and administration, including retailer profit, is quite a lot.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#333

Post by fjsolwmv »

greedo wrote: post #233
kartan wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but Apple's certainly adding value. Do roads add value? Should trucks pay a 30% of their cargo retail price in road tolls? I agree with your point that Apple adds value. I just do not see that as a justification to take a 30% share of all apps that run on their devices.

Trucks pay fees based on the load they're carrying...

The weight, not the price.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#334

Post by kevingadd »

javagram wrote: post #20
ObsoleteNerd wrote: post #10

Doesn't Valve take 30% from games on Steam? But they're complaining Apple taking 30% is too much? I also don't really think the Apple/Google fee is that unreasonable. Considering the resources, tools, marketplaces, tutorials, payment processing, all the other All dev stuff they provide in general. Yes if your app goes big, they make a lot of money. But for every big app there's something like 9 that fail completely (…

Valve takes 30% of direct sales through steam but allows developers to generate and sell separately steam keys where they get a 0% cut, as I understand it. For instance when you buy a game on humble bundle and get a steam key for it, valve makes nothing off that transaction. Unless Apple and google start allowing sales outside their stores I don’t think steam is comparable.

This is accurate but they've started getting antsy about free steam keys. I think it's due to pay-what-you-want bundles but they haven't really given any official statements, it's just second-hand from various developers. I suspect the policy on free keys may change now that literally anyone can toss a game up on the store and we've started seeing people maliciously manipulate the system (games that mine bitcoins and have in-app purchases designed to defraud users). They already made changes to filter out reviews from people who got game keys "for free" because of that sort of manipulation.

I suspect they'll either put a limit on # of free keys or start charging per key, something like 5% of your listed retail price.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#335

Post by amerkhalid »

jolmg wrote: post #252
sp527 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We as a society need to start thinking about how we rate people. Right now we all shop for that 5-star rating and punish anyone with 4. We need to mature beyond that as it grows increasingly impossible to maintain perfect ratings. I couldn't disagree more with this sentiment. The answer is not to intentionally sabotage competitive market forces that are driving better outcomes for consumers. That's the equivalent o…

I didn't downvote, but I think cptaj's point was to "unsabotage" the rating system. Ideally, the 5-star rating system should work like: - 1-star means Awful - 2-star means Bad - 3-star means OK - 4-star means Good - 5-star means Excellent That means no one should have any problem using something rated 3 or above. However, by "[shopping] for that 5-star rating and [punishing] anyone with a 4", the rating system ends u…

There is another big negative about using ratings when dining out that no one talks about.

My friends and I were recently discussing how we haven't had a bad experience in any restaurant in awhile. But now we are so used to really good restaurants that it is extremely rare to get amazed by any restaurant.

If we compare this to our experiences in pre-Yelp era, it was so exciting to discover an amazing restaurant. Sure we ate at a lot of mediocre restaurants but joy of finding something amazing was greater back then.

I am not sure what the solution is. Stop looking up ratings?

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#337

Post by killaken2000 »

betenoire wrote: post #323
zasz wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love Chinese service. I hate feeling obligated to make small talk with the waiters. "Is everything fine?" Fuck off, I'm trying to talk to my friend here.

I hope you are exaggerating a little for fun. Asking if everything is fine isn't really small talk and definitely doesn't deserve contempt.

If everything isn't fine I'm just never coming back. Though I don't have that problem often because I have a high tolerance.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#338

Post by culturestate »

freehunter wrote: post #322
scarface74 wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most non game apps shouldn't be apps. They should be web pages. It would be faster development and you wouldn't be dependent on the app stores. A torrent remote app would never be allowed on the IOS app store, but going to https://remote.vuze.com and pairing your Vuze app can't be banned....

If it was easier to pin a web page to your home screen, I think this would catch on more. I run a website and I get requests a lot saying "you should have an app!" I ask what the app would do, and they say "what the website does, but stuck on my home screen." It's also unfortunate that web pages have the disadvantage that they have the browser UI around them, so it reduces the space available to the page versus an ap…

> If it was easier to pin a web page to your home screen, I think this would catch on more

On iOS, this is literally a two-tap process (share sheet -> add to home screen). I can't speak for the masses, but the reason I don't do it more often is because so many web apps are just bad on mobile. Slow, poor rendering, no attention paid to extended usability...

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#339

Post by maym86 »

taurath wrote: post #251
MBCook wrote: post #204

I think Apple’s fee is more than fair for many developers. Free hosting, they do all sorts of payment compliance/fraud/tax stuff for you. To a small developer I think it’s a huge boon. But once you become BIG (Candy Crush, Fortnight, Netflix, Amazon) that advantage no longer applies. Those companies are all capable of doing all the payment stuff on their own. And when you’re doing Fortnight business that 30% is a TON…

30% is a TON of money regardless. Its the difference between being in business and not if you are a niche product, profit vs loss for a small medium sized company. You're giving up 30% of your revenue. Payments? Stripe fees are like 3-4%. Distribution? Free/non-IAP apps don't pay for this other than some licensing fees. I don't think there is a benefit that IOS/Gplay provide that even approaches being worth a 10% rev…

> You're giving up 30% of your revenue.

Only if people would find and download your app somewhere else. This works for fortnite because they have the brand recognition and fanbase who will seek it out elsewhere. Even then it might be a barrier.

For smaller apps there's little chance they'd be making as much money or ever even be found if they weren't on the app store so the 30% maybe a fair price to pay vs nothing at all.

Seems like a trade-off where any app developer can self-publish yet there are still a lot of apps available on the play store.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#340

Post by orbitur »

rohit2412 wrote: post #239
CamperBob2 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on now. They invented the app ecosystem, which is far more important than just inventing a phone. Without Apple, the application market would still be controlled by Sprint and AT&T and Verizon. Not defending Apple or attacking it, just pointing out the facts.

And how is Apple's walled app store any better than the alternative of at&t controlled app store? They can keep their 30% cut if they allow me to sideload apps from external sources.

> And how is Apple's walled app store any better than the alternative of at&t controlled app store?

I don't know if you've used an iPhone, but do you really think AT&T's walled garden would have anything approaching the quality of the best apps on the App Store?

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