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Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

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Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#191

Post by shade »

ectospheno wrote: post #57

I neither need nor want every service I use to have my credit card details. They can use the apple store or they can just do without my money. I'm fine either way.

Yes, I prefer not having my card details stored across so many different services. Even though I trust Netflix to be competent on security, it's one more place I have to remember to update/manage it every time I get a new card.

A friend of mine noted something I'd forgotten while we were discussing this: that cancelling a subscription through the App Store is just a few clicks. Doing it through other channels can be a tremendous pain.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#192

Post by kartan »

rlanday wrote: post #52
cgriswald wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steam does not sell me a locked down hardware platform preventing me from buying the software directly from the publisher. Nor does Steam force me to buy DLC through Steam, I am free to buy the DLC directly from the publisher. Steam gets a cut of what I buy from Steam and I am not locked into buying from Steam in order to make my PC useful. Apple sells me a locked down hardware platform that requires me to go through…

> Apple adds no value there Other than inventing the modern phone, writing the operating system and developer tools, running the store, manufacturing the phones people are consuming Amazon's product on and convincing people to buy them...you can argue about what's "fair," but Apple's certainly adding value.

> but Apple's certainly adding value.

Do roads add value? Should trucks pay a 30% of their cargo retail price in road tolls?

I agree with your point that Apple adds value. I just do not see that as a justification to take a 30% share of all apps that run on their devices.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#193

Post by avar »

cptaj wrote: post #135

And they should. We are fast approaching a world where all markets are walled-in by a few international companies. I've had clients of mine go under because Amazon decided to close their accounts and they depend on the platform to sell their wares. Imagine how hard it is to sell stuff online if you're barred from ebay and amazon... and there is no legal recourse to appeal those bans. Same goes for app stores, what ha…

It's really screwed up even as a consumer. E.g. for things like Uber I've taken to always rating 5 stars regardless of my experience, because even if I have something bad to say do I really want to so nonchalantly be a cog in the machine of potentially robbing someone of their livelyhood?

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#194

Post by sp527 »

cptaj wrote: post #135

And they should. We are fast approaching a world where all markets are walled-in by a few international companies. I've had clients of mine go under because Amazon decided to close their accounts and they depend on the platform to sell their wares. Imagine how hard it is to sell stuff online if you're barred from ebay and amazon... and there is no legal recourse to appeal those bans. Same goes for app stores, what ha…

> We as a society need to start thinking about how we rate people. Right now we all shop for that 5-star rating and punish anyone with 4. We need to mature beyond that as it grows increasingly impossible to maintain perfect ratings.

I couldn't disagree more with this sentiment. The answer is not to intentionally sabotage competitive market forces that are driving better outcomes for consumers. That's the equivalent of a jobs program. If you can't compete, you don't compete. Businesses are inherently risky and some people will lose.

If an inordinate number of sellers are failing or struggling, that reflects a failed assessment of market risk and ill-informed decision-making. The answer is to improve the decision-making capability of participants or otherwise improve the social safety net for people who are facing new realities of economic obsolescence.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#195

Post by imh »

DmenshunlAnlsis wrote: post #79
mywittyname wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Valve has several big competitors in the PC market. Several hugely successful games are not available on Steam. I'm not sure it's possible to create a hugely successful iPhone app that isn't on the App Store. Apple has a monopoly and is using it to squeeze excessive fees from developers.

Apple has a “monopoly” on their own products, not smartphones or apps, or anything else. It’s like complaining that Ford has a monopoly on cars made by Ford. There are other phones, other ecosystems, other cars. A monopoly isn’t “I want an Apple product on my own terms, and if I can’t get that, it’s a monopoly.” This trend of claiming Apple is a monopoly or Facebook is because you don’t like the alternatives is pueri…

Apple does have a monopoly on their own products. No need for scare quotes. They also have a monopoly on iOS app distribution. One of those bothers more market participants than the other, and for the same reasons monopolies can (but don't always) cause trouble for the markets in which they exist.

As per usual, competition is a good answer. Competition in making iPhones is nonsensical. Competition in distributing and selling iOS apps isn't, and would be good for the market. Or at least it might be good for the market. That's the whole premise of this discussion, and for most discussions about monopolistic tendencies.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#196

Post by cgriswald »

UncleMeat wrote: post #171
madrox wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steam is also adding a lot of value for that rev-share. A social network...kickstart-esque backing of projects...cloud saves...great search and discoverability. There is a reason why developers choose Steam even though they operate on platforms that don't require it.

And mobile stores offer search, promotion, distribution, and analytics.

In the absence of any alternative methods of developers getting their apps into users hands, it is difficult to say whether "search, promotion, distribution, and analytics" offered by Apple are really valued at what Apple is charging for them. It is also difficult to separate these things from things Apple is doing for its own sake, since they increase sales which benefits Apple directly.

I strongly suspect that, given enough time to compensate for the existing momentum of the App Store, if an alternative App Store was an option, Apple would either improve its offerings, lower what it charges, or see a mass migration of publishers away from the App Store.

Edit: Clarity of meaning.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#197

Post by imgabe »

avar wrote: post #193
cptaj wrote: post #135

And they should. We are fast approaching a world where all markets are walled-in by a few international companies. I've had clients of mine go under because Amazon decided to close their accounts and they depend on the platform to sell their wares. Imagine how hard it is to sell stuff online if you're barred from ebay and amazon... and there is no legal recourse to appeal those bans. Same goes for app stores, what ha…

It's really screwed up even as a consumer. E.g. for things like Uber I've taken to always rating 5 stars regardless of my experience, because even if I have something bad to say do I really want to so nonchalantly be a cog in the machine of potentially robbing someone of their livelyhood?

Yeah, the way Uber ratings work it seems like there are only two ratings: "I had an acceptable experience" or "This person should lose their job".

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#198

Post by remusrm »

cptaj wrote: post #135

And they should. We are fast approaching a world where all markets are walled-in by a few international companies. I've had clients of mine go under because Amazon decided to close their accounts and they depend on the platform to sell their wares. Imagine how hard it is to sell stuff online if you're barred from ebay and amazon... and there is no legal recourse to appeal those bans. Same goes for app stores, what ha…

Indeed is scary, and a lot of hUmans these days don't look future in the future and its all about now, and what can I get now!

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#199

Post by CamperBob2 »

FireBeyond wrote: post #184
rlanday wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple adds no value there Other than inventing the modern phone, writing the operating system and developer tools, running the store, manufacturing the phones people are consuming Amazon's product on and convincing people to buy them...you can argue about what's "fair," but Apple's certainly adding value.

> Other than inventing the modern phone Come on now. > writing the operating system Which OS, iOS, that the phone purchaser inherently paid for? Or macOS, that the computer purchaser inherently paid for? > developer tools Which you need to purchase a developer license for to be useful. Apple is adding value, AND double dipping. Most of your examples are things they've already been compensated for.

Come on now.

They invented the app ecosystem, which is far more important than just inventing a phone. Without Apple, the application market would still be controlled by Sprint and AT&T and Verizon.

Not defending Apple or attacking it, just pointing out the facts.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#200

Post by remusrm »

avar wrote: post #193
cptaj wrote: post #135

And they should. We are fast approaching a world where all markets are walled-in by a few international companies. I've had clients of mine go under because Amazon decided to close their accounts and they depend on the platform to sell their wares. Imagine how hard it is to sell stuff online if you're barred from ebay and amazon... and there is no legal recourse to appeal those bans. Same goes for app stores, what ha…

It's really screwed up even as a consumer. E.g. for things like Uber I've taken to always rating 5 stars regardless of my experience, because even if I have something bad to say do I really want to so nonchalantly be a cog in the machine of potentially robbing someone of their livelyhood?

Its not just Uber, most surveys and other such feedback, unless is satisfied or extremely satisfied is considered bad!
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