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Buzzfeed journalist denied China visa following coverage of Xinjiang crackdown

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Re: Buzzfeed journalist denied China visa following coverage of Xinjiang crackdown

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> future number one market That's highly unlikely given the current state, as US consumer is is about 1/3 of the world's household consumption https://www.selectusa.gov/largest-market , and is growing 3% this quarter. China has alot of debt problems, and will suffer heavily in a trade war. About 45% of Chinese GDP is in 'investment', where probably half is waste (continued state investments into expensive-to-maintain…

> China has alot of debt problems, and will suffer heavily in a trade war. About 45% of Chinese GDP is in 'investment', where probably half is waste (continued state investments into expensive-to-maintain, rarely used rails, bridge, and buildings). Whereas for a developed country like US, it's about 20% investment (70% in consumption). This seems like almost the reverse of the conclusion you're trying to support. Inv…

> Investments in development and infrastructure are a good mechanism for long-term economic growth

That of course depends on the infrastructure situation in question. Japan vaporized trillions of dollars on infrastructure and it did absolutely nothing of consequence to boost their growth. Infrastructure wasn't their problem as it turned out, so each follow-on dollar they plowed into additional unnecessary infrastructure spending produced declining rates of return. China is guilty of plenty of that so far.

The US is the least trade dependent major economy. It would benefit from shifting some imports to increased domestic production, such as in the steel and aluminum industries. It's better to pay slightly higher prices if necessary and to produce domestic investment with quality blue collar jobs. That's not a universal of course, there's little benefit to the US trying to manufacture $20 toasters or $3 playing decks of cards or $1 shoe laces by hand.

It's ideal for the US to consume less and produce more. European nations boost savings rates with very high VAT taxes. Tariffs are another means to accomplish the exact same end, except it's even better because it bolsters domestic production at the same time that it reduces consumption by raising the cost of consumption.

So not only is there an extreme lobsided imbalance between the benefit in US / China trade due to the trade deficit there, the US would benefit from fewer goods pouring in from China in all scenarios because of the gains in domestic manufacturing (even if they're modest) + domestic investment, and lowered consumption. Less capital flows overseas, more stays home.

There's always the scenario that comes up of: what if China cuts off something that isn't easily replaced such as smart phone manufacturing, or similar. Other countries can easily pick up the slack, such as Vietnam which is a booming electronics manufacturer (and makes a lot of smart phones now).

On the flip side, China can't operate at all without US tech. They'd have to turn to stealing it. The rest of the world would largely proceed to banish those then-illegal Chinese products accordingly (particularly Europe, Latin America, Japan, AU/NZ, Mexico, Canada, etc).

Re: Buzzfeed journalist denied China visa following coverage of Xinjiang crackdown

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Miss out in the future number one market on earth or stand up for human rights? Certainly a scary future.

> stand up for human rights Can we all just get off our high horse? We literally have concentration camps at our borders and have bombed hundreds of civilians. We don't get to claim the moral high ground.

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Re: Buzzfeed journalist denied China visa following coverage of Xinjiang crackdown

#83

Not excusing YC because I don't care about them, but Jesus, stop trying to apply the standards of the liberal west to all the world. Say what you will but they're finding a solution to the Muslim problem, something the west doesn't have the balls to do (and by the time we come up with something it'll be too late)

No, no, no. Terrorism is a problem, but a very small minority of Muslims are terrorists. If I lived in China, I would be at least as violent. Concentration camps are terrible. I've spoken with people who lived in them. Don't ever support them or call them a "solution" to the "problem" of an ethnicity, religion, or culture. That's what the nazis did.

So your answer to violence is to use violence? ...because nazis?

Re: Buzzfeed journalist denied China visa following coverage of Xinjiang crackdown

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was that time a bunch of Californians move to Colorado and turned the place into California Lite (TM).

@dang, remember I said there is collective here mercilessly killing wrongthink in threads? Marking as "flagged"? Exhibit A.

Doesn't 'wrongthink' imply 'think'? I don't see much thinking here, just tribalistic bashing. HN is for the users who don't want that.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Buzzfeed journalist denied China visa following coverage of Xinjiang crackdown

#85
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trick isn't whether these brands can access China, it's in what manner. Western brands sell very well in China, who gets the proceeds is the issue. The big European luxury goods brands are doing a wild business in China. [1][2][3][4] If you want to make a lot of money on China as a foreigner, you want to be selling a luxury brand product rather than offering a local service (eg fast food chain). That might be an…

Disney's partner is the Shanghai government, not Wang. And the partnership was many years in the making. Wang only made his boast after the park openned, to draw attention to his own properties. KFC and McD owned Chinese franchises for decades before spinning them out for financial reasons.

I never said Disney's partner was Wang. I said that Wang said he was going to chase Disney from China with his own parks.

Yum and MCD were forced into partnering locally and giving up total ownership of those businesses.

If you're a German company you can freely set up a US version of your business and own it outright. Nintendo doesn't have to give up eg 70% of its stake in Nintendo of America. That's not the case if you're MCD trying to operate in China.

Re: Buzzfeed journalist denied China visa following coverage of Xinjiang crackdown

#86
post #2

Is this surprising at all?

Actually, it's pretty surprising. Western journalists/academics have always been given a fair degree of latitude for reporting inside of China as long as they only wrote in English for foreign press. There's been an active contingent of China Twitter loudly saying for the past few months that academics and journalists should be speaking out more about Xinjiang because the likelihood of visa revoking has been vastly o…

[flagged]

Re: Buzzfeed journalist denied China visa following coverage of Xinjiang crackdown

#87
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disney's partner is the Shanghai government, not Wang. And the partnership was many years in the making. Wang only made his boast after the park openned, to draw attention to his own properties. KFC and McD owned Chinese franchises for decades before spinning them out for financial reasons.

I never said Disney's partner was Wang. I said that Wang said he was going to chase Disney from China with his own parks. Yum and MCD were forced into partnering locally and giving up total ownership of those businesses. If you're a German company you can freely set up a US version of your business and own it outright. Nintendo doesn't have to give up eg 70% of its stake in Nintendo of America. That's not the case if…

Could you give your source on MCD being forced to spin out their stores? In US 90% of the stores are owned by franchisees, not MCD https://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en-us/about-us/franchising.html Why should China be different?

You said "Wang Jianlin had touted that he'd personally chase Disney from China, and that his parks would dominate instead. Disney really had no choice but to acquiesce and partner up." I pointed out that the partnership with Shanghai predated Wang's boast by many years. If you didn't mean to imply some kind of causal relationship between the two you may want to clarify.

Re: Buzzfeed journalist denied China visa following coverage of Xinjiang crackdown

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone is from US, miss. Most people from other countries sees a concentration camp for what it is, a concentration camp. Some have parents or relatives that lived (or died) through those camps. And I wouldn't dare compare US's detention center for illegal immigrants with the camp for millions of people detained without violating any laws. For instance, most countries have detention centers for illegal immigran…

I understand that not everyone is an American but YC is an American company, hence the hypocrisy of only calling out YC China when the U.S. is also complacent about human right violations, which is the point I was trying to make.

The difference is that YC in America is not afraid or hesitant to call out things that are inherently wrong in the US. They both write and fund companies and non-profits that address those issues. With YC China, the best YC can realistically do is fund and self censor.

Re: Buzzfeed journalist denied China visa following coverage of Xinjiang crackdown

#90

An indirect reminder that now that YC China is a thing @sama and @paulg and any other affiliated will have to avoid saying anything negative about China in order to keep doing business there.

If YC China succeeds and becomes big there, it'll inevitably draw Chinese attention back to YC US including news.ycombinator.com. I would expect they'll have to begin blocking sensitive discussions on HN in the near future. The wave of one hand is all it takes to destroy YC China, because of one upsetting thread on HN getting back to authorities in China. If they plan to stay in bed with China and all that entails, i…

All it takes is for a stuffed bear related post to make the front page.
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