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China’s Mass Internment Camps Have No Clear End in Sight

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31–40 of 144 posts

Re: China’s Mass Internment Camps Have No Clear End in Sight

#31
post #10

Where are the responses from Muslim countries?

Most Muslim states are oppressive dictatorships, or have fractious ethic minorities of their own, or both. Criticising China for its treatment of the Uighurs would just draw attention to their own record and current activities. Also, most of them have trade and investment links to China.

Re: China’s Mass Internment Camps Have No Clear End in Sight

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"communist dictatorship" is inexact enough to be outright dishonest. Their economy is obviously capitalist. And although Xi has been leaning towards more dictator-like behavior, they haven't been a dictatorship since Mao. It's more like a giant bureaucracy. They have a process, they have regular handovers of power. It's not "I am the law".

> "communist dictatorship" is inexact enough to be outright dishonest. Describing an oligarchy as a communist dictatorship is near-equivalent. Far from dishonest. > Their economy is obviously capitalist It's capitalist at specific granularities. This is a derail, at best. > They have a process, they have regular handovers of power. So does an oligarchy.

Thank you! It's an oligarchy! Not a dictatorship!

But they're not near-equivalent. Group vs individual. Politics are entirely different. Both deemphasize citizen rights but that doesn't make them the same!

Why are people so offended that this distinction exists?

Re: China’s Mass Internment Camps Have No Clear End in Sight

#33
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their economy is obviously capitalist. Does mandated 50% local (aka party) ownership align with "obviously capitalist"? That seems a stretch (aka crony capitalist). Xi has asked for indefinitely long term of power and gotten it. Handover of power?

The undertone of your post seems to be that you can't possibly have authoritarian capitalism, which of course, is not true...

It's a matter of definitions. For many, capitalism means "free market economy". Under that case, authoritarianism is indeed fundamentally opposed to capitalism. If you define capitalism as just "private ownership of the means of production", then sure, you can be authoritarian and capitalist.

Re: China’s Mass Internment Camps Have No Clear End in Sight

#34
post #10

Where are the responses from Muslim countries?

There probably aren't any. Ever since Pan-Arabism died with Nasser, leaders of Muslim countries are mostly concerned with keeping themselves in power and keeping things stable in their own borders, which means a) downplaying if not actively suppressing supranational ideologies and b) playing nice with countries like China to keep the money flowing. And the only real Pan-Islamic movements are the extremist ones, which…

Pan-Islamism aside, there were mass protests over those Danish cartoons a few years back. I don't claim to understand other cultures and religions, but I'll be surprised if mass internment is less outrageous. So where are those people?

Re: China’s Mass Internment Camps Have No Clear End in Sight

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree with everything you just said, it seems to be true that in China you can get arrested for basically arbitrary reasons if someone doesn't like you. While it's not one man saying "I am the law", there is still a group saying it, and that group is the bureaucracy.

Sure. But words mean things. Slapping a bunch of incorrect trigger words together terminates thought.

[deleted]

Re: China’s Mass Internment Camps Have No Clear End in Sight

#36
post #10

Where are the responses from Muslim countries?

I've found this very strange as well. Best guess is that it hasn't fully reached their populations / news audiences. It's only in the last four to six months that Western media has begun to actively talk about it and pursue the truth of what's going on there. Alternatively they don't protest China because they know it does no good. The Guantanamo Bay detention camp had less than a thousand total detainees over its hi…

> Alternatively they don't protest China because they know it does no good.

One Muslim country at least, Egypt, is doing China's bidding on Uighurs https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/07/fear-panic-egypt-arre... :

> Egyptian police have detained scores of Chinese students from the Uighur ethnic minority on Beijing's request, forcing dozens into hiding or to flee to Turkey, activists have said.

> These millions of Muslims are not just going to give up their beliefs willingly, so what is China's next step? Vast genocide has to be the concern going forward.

Certainly all the ones they've put in concentration camps are never going to love China after what's happened. If they let them out, their stories will only spread discontent among the rest of the population. So genocide will have been an option under consideration. On the other hand, they must know that descending to Nazi levels of evil is unlikely to improve China's image.

Re: China’s Mass Internment Camps Have No Clear End in Sight

#37
post #10

Where are the responses from Muslim countries?

There probably aren't any. Ever since Pan-Arabism died with Nasser, leaders of Muslim countries are mostly concerned with keeping themselves in power and keeping things stable in their own borders, which means a) downplaying if not actively suppressing supranational ideologies and b) playing nice with countries like China to keep the money flowing. And the only real Pan-Islamic movements are the extremist ones, which…

You’re quite right, as far as I understand. Another example of how little political glue there is between Muslim countries is that Saudi Arabia is quietly cooperating with Israel — supposedly the enemy — while almost at war with Qatar — supposedly Arab brethren.

Re: China’s Mass Internment Camps Have No Clear End in Sight

#40
post #2

China is a communist dictatorship where you can be arrested and possibly murdered for saying the wrong thing. So this is not very surprising.

"communist dictatorship" is inexact enough to be outright dishonest. Their economy is obviously capitalist. And although Xi has been leaning towards more dictator-like behavior, they haven't been a dictatorship since Mao. It's more like a giant bureaucracy. They have a process, they have regular handovers of power. It's not "I am the law".

> "communist dictatorship" is inexact enough to be outright dishonest.

They are Communists even if they aren't communists.

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