Earlier quoted context omitted.
So it was an accurate depiction of what they would be working on? It seems like this is akin to the goal.
That is... missing the point.
That's missing a tangential point, but not THE ostensible point (topical)?
Companies shouldn't give candidates homework assignments
71–80 of 179 posts
Re: Companies shouldn't give candidates homework assignments
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
Something that takes an evening (whether code, writing, etc.) seems generally reasonable assuming that it serves as a reasonably effective screener. After all, some homework for an interview such as researching the company and their market space is typical. Something that takes 40 hours? Not so much.
If a homework assignment takes 40 hours then it’s likely that either you’re under-qualified or the company has some unrealistic expectations regrading the position. Either way, you should reconsider your application.
Depends on the assignment. I don't regularly program these days but for work I often do (preparing/giving presentations, writing of various types) I could trivially come up with an assignment that would take a person skilled in the topic the better part of a week to do--especially given that they'd want to make their "homework" particularly impressive.
Re: Companies shouldn't give candidates homework assignments
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
Unpopular opinion, but I prefer to be “under the gun”. So much more efficient time wise.
Me too. Also, I don't want to do some work for "free".
I'd prefer to see it as an investment in yourself, so not really for "free". Also it's (probably) not like the company will make any money of the home assignment they give you.
Re: Companies shouldn't give candidates homework assignments
#74Candidates who don't have a portfolio with code I can look at: hope you like homework. I don't like asking for unpaid labor, but I also won't risk my team blowing hours interviewing someone who has no chance of being successful here.
Portfolio of what? I'm not a graphic designer. I'd love to be able to save great code that I've written over the years. But it's all covered by license agreements, NDA's, security clearance, etc. So unless you're exclusively looking at amateur projects or open source developers, that's not a good business plan.
Right. All my best code (and worst, of course) is owned by my employer and former employers, and is usually exclusively licensed to their customers.
I tend not to code in my off hours any more, because I have different interests now, that require the expenditure of leisure time to enjoy. If I do, it is to solve an immediate need or as a side-project to make money directly, rather than to maybe get another job in the future.
If you want my portfolio, I want to browse your defects database and code repository before we interview.
Re: Companies shouldn't give candidates homework assignments
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
Unfortunately the homework project is usually followed by an in-person whiteboard hazing, which nullifies those benefits. I recently interviewed with a well known tech mini-giant who admitted that my homework assignment was among the best they’ve received, but still flunked me based on the in-person slugfest so YMMV.
Name and shame. This is disgusting.
+1
Hear, hear!
Re: Companies shouldn't give candidates homework assignments
#76Of course she doesn't like homework assignments. She can't sell books and make money off that idea.
Re: Companies shouldn't give candidates homework assignments
#77Let’s compare this to a recent experience I had with a recruiter from Square. Among other things, I was told that in a 1 hour phone screen, I was to write code as if it were production code, and not “just interview hacking.” She also suggested I read Cracking the Coding Interview ! For a phone screen! I think this is frankly ridiculous. What do you think the rest of the interview process is like? At best, it’s cargo…
The Facebook recruiter told me that "successful candidates spend an average of 10-15 hours preparing"...for a 45 minute phone screen. For the onsite you're expected to spend a few weeks reading CtCI and working through the practice problems.
Re: Companies shouldn't give candidates homework assignments
#78Last time I went around interviewing, companies that passed out homework basically front-loaded the candidate time commitment so that they only had to put in their own time if the candidate looked promising.
The homework was not bad in itself, but was a symptom of a larger problem. Namely, the company was unwilling to invest equal energy into the interviewing process as their candidates. So my first impression of the company was that it was full of brusque assholes that valued their time more than mine. It seemed patronizing.
This was certainly also possible without homework, as in the case of the companies that wanted me to disclose my salary expectations up front, without disclosing what they expected to pay the median candidate. They wanted to reject quickly, so they could reject more candidates, and finally get to the good one that they'd want to hire. As the article author might put it, don't use an evaluation tool as a screening tool.
Re: Companies shouldn't give candidates homework assignments
#79>Candidates spend many hours completing homework assignments for companies which are not sufficiently interested in them. This is abusing candidates. Knock it off. Given a choice of spending 2-3 hours on a take home assignment vs. 1 hour of writing code on a whiteboard in front of 3 or more developers, I'd choose the former any day. It's not even close. The author is taking one end of the spectrum and painting it as…
The problem is effort asymmetry. For in-person interviews, company must spend as much time as candidate is spending in evaluation. If homework thing becomes standard, I'm afraid that will become first line of filtering because it doesn't cost much to company. So you will still get in-person interview and may be even bit of whiteboarding (to make sure your friend didn't took test for you or somehow you cheated out by getting questions before hand).
You can look at the test process in terms of game theory where one player deals with several players who are not all equally qualified and have incentive to get the prize. So the adversarial mechanics will eventually ensue and folks will try to "game" the system. If you invent whiteboarding as defence, folks will try to invent leetcode as counter measure. If you invent homework as defence, you can bet sites pop all over that allows you to search problem and frameworks and download the common solutions with a click.
Re: Companies shouldn't give candidates homework assignments
#80The title is a little click-baitey, because it suggests full on assault on homework. The actual post is more measured in its criticisms, but basically the idea is: don't use homework as a cop-out for not having a good interview process, and thereby likely wasting everyones time. Personally I like homework, because it allows me to show my strengths (actually writing code that is solid) without being "under the gun" in…
Ya I agree, I was all ready to blast it but then realized it had a couple good pointers in the case that you are gonna offer homework. I do disagree with the premise though. As someone who's worked in the tech field for 15+ years and has been on plenty of interviews, I for one would much rather do a short homework assignment than have to stand in front of a few people and white board shit in real-time. Here are reaso…
> If you complain about having to spend a couple hours outside the interview on work, maybe you don't really want the job that bad enough
Maybe I'm talking to more than one company and don't feel like subjecting myself to this absolute nonsense over & over. Maybe I'm just feeling out the opportunity without having to worry about solving a made up issue and hope it conforms to what the employee reviewing it considers good.
What other in-demand professions(based on demand vs. qualified candidates) make potential employees sing & dance, and then go through a full interview process on top of that?
Do accountants have to balance a fictional company's books or find the most efficient structuring of a fictional company's taxes across multiple jurisdictions before being allowed to have an actual conversation with a peer about the role?