Companies shouldn't give candidates homework assignments • Hacker News Board

Re: Companies shouldn't give candidates homework assignments

#31

Post by murukesh_s » Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 6:57 PM UTC

strict9 wrote: post #17

>Candidates spend many hours completing homework assignments for companies which are not sufficiently interested in them. This is abusing candidates. Knock it off. Given a choice of spending 2-3 hours on a take home assignment vs. 1 hour of writing code on a whiteboard in front of 3 or more developers, I'd choose the former any day. It's not even close. The author is taking one end of the spectrum and painting it as…

>Whiteboarding to "see how I think" is not at all how I would think if I were work for them

Someone nailed it finally

Re: Companies shouldn't give candidates homework assignments

#32

Post by icedchai » Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 6:57 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #16

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #14

This is really not that hard to do right in my opinion. This is what we did for a "homework assignment" after a 30 minute phone and 30 minute team screen were already done: 1. Supervisor had candidate sign mutual-NDA, work for hire at $X/hr rate & IP assignment agreement on docusign. 2. Potential future supervisor gave the candidate access to a repo and assigned a production task that should take less than 10 hours t…

>Supervisor had candidate sign mutual-NDA, work for hire at $X/hr rate & IP assignment agreement on docusign. This would be a violation of the candidate's employment contract at many companies.

Perhaps, but totally unenforceable... It's a non-issue.

Developers are not slaves, and you cannot prevent them from doing outside work while looking for other jobs.

Re: Companies shouldn't give candidates homework assignments

#33

Post by FlipperBucket » Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 6:59 PM UTC

tombert wrote: post #28

I had a friend that did an interview homework assignment, was declined for the job, then found out that they used his assignment's code in production through a friend that already worked at the company. While I'll admit that this is atypical, it seems like something a more nefarious company could abuse.

So it was an accurate depiction of what they would be working on? It seems like this is akin to the goal.

Re: Companies shouldn't give candidates homework assignments

#34

Post by kowdermeister » Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 6:59 PM UTC

asadlionpk wrote: post #19

I am a founder of a company that helps companies with screening candidates[0]. I understand the negative response towards this. But I feel there is a balance here: We advice our customers to send smaller problems (~30mins) meant to pre-screen the candidates (without wasting too much of their time). This followed by a phone interview is currently the best funnel we know so far (and we have been working on this problem…

These candidate screening portals that make me code in a web IDE are nightmare to me.

My main problem with all of them is that I don't have a chance to talk to an interviewer real time to ask questions, express my thought process or go though the problem together. The time limit is usually harsh, once I needed 5 more extra minutes and the system shut down the test, zero points, but I had it coded 90% and the rest was in my head.

Test cases are revealed _after_ the code is submitted (or not even at all) which is the reverse of what happens in real life.

They are solving the wrong problem. Yes, hiring is broken, you made it better for employers, but not for candidates. I guess this is what we get for bashing the whiteboard interviewing for years, finally the disruption has arrived.

Re: Companies shouldn't give candidates homework assignments

#35

Post by EduardoBautista » Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 7:00 PM UTC

daenz wrote: post #11

The title is a little click-baitey, because it suggests full on assault on homework. The actual post is more measured in its criticisms, but basically the idea is: don't use homework as a cop-out for not having a good interview process, and thereby likely wasting everyones time. Personally I like homework, because it allows me to show my strengths (actually writing code that is solid) without being "under the gun" in…

Unpopular opinion, but I prefer to be “under the gun”. So much more efficient time wise.

Re: Companies shouldn't give candidates homework assignments

#36

Post by TAForObvReasons » Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 7:01 PM UTC

daenz wrote: post #11

The title is a little click-baitey, because it suggests full on assault on homework. The actual post is more measured in its criticisms, but basically the idea is: don't use homework as a cop-out for not having a good interview process, and thereby likely wasting everyones time. Personally I like homework, because it allows me to show my strengths (actually writing code that is solid) without being "under the gun" in…

The article is clear: homework is the best approach from the perspective of company time. That this practice is widespread should be interpreted as a lopsided labor market with a glut of supply (workers) and limited demand (companies).

Re: Companies shouldn't give candidates homework assignments

#37

Post by tombert » Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 7:02 PM UTC

FlipperBucket wrote: post #33

tombert wrote: post #28

I had a friend that did an interview homework assignment, was declined for the job, then found out that they used his assignment's code in production through a friend that already worked at the company. While I'll admit that this is atypical, it seems like something a more nefarious company could abuse.

So it was an accurate depiction of what they would be working on? It seems like this is akin to the goal.

I suppose that's true; no test like production.

I think it was probably a good thing that he was declined, a company that would do that probably isn't a great place to work.

Re: Companies shouldn't give candidates homework assignments

#38

Post by heyyyouu » Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 7:02 PM UTC

madisonmay wrote: post #8

Or as an alternative -- give them something legitimately beneficial to your company to work on, pay them standard consulting rates. This puts the impetus on the company to have fairly high certainty the candidate is qualified before the take-home, and the candidate gets compensated for their time even if a hire isn't made.

We only do homework as a final screening test for candidates. If it's any more than a simple project, we pay them standard rates. That way no one feels taken advantage of. Plus, if they bomb it and they're getting paid for it then you KNOW they're not the right candidate, even if every other test was aced, so it really is an excellent tool for us. But again, ONLY at the end of the process when we're making a final decision between, most likely, two candidates.

Re: Companies shouldn't give candidates homework assignments

#39

Post by 0xcafecafe » Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 7:02 PM UTC

EduardoBautista wrote: post #35

daenz wrote: post #11

The title is a little click-baitey, because it suggests full on assault on homework. The actual post is more measured in its criticisms, but basically the idea is: don't use homework as a cop-out for not having a good interview process, and thereby likely wasting everyones time. Personally I like homework, because it allows me to show my strengths (actually writing code that is solid) without being "under the gun" in…

Unpopular opinion, but I prefer to be “under the gun”. So much more efficient time wise.

Me too. Also, I don't want to do some work for "free".

Re: Companies shouldn't give candidates homework assignments

#40

Post by bumholio » Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 7:02 PM UTC

"Thank you for the interest you have shown in me. With regard to the current home project you have assigned me to progress in the interviewing process, I cannot but feel it's somewhat excessive with regards to my time, while being completely free and noncommittal for you.

On the other hand, I certainly understand that you must vet that candidates can actually produce quality software before extending an offer. I believe we can reach a reasonable understanding where I am compensated at my standard consulting rate of $150/hour for any project or homework you might have. This way, the process becomes fair with my time and it also gives you the possibility to thoroughly test my abilities by risking no more than a token amount.

Thank you, eagerly awaiting your response."