I get it. I hate login-walls too. The level of toxicity in the github issue's conversation is so astounding that I must say something. People on the internet are people. I hope that we don't talk to people in "real life" the same as we do when we make toxic comments online. Complain, write letters/emails to Docker, make your opinion heard, etc. But remember that you are dealing with a fellow human-being, who has thei…
Docker cannot be downloaded without logging into Docker Store
381–390 of 454 posts
Re: Docker cannot be downloaded without logging into Docker Store
#382I get it. I hate login-walls too. The level of toxicity in the github issue's conversation is so astounding that I must say something. People on the internet are people. I hope that we don't talk to people in "real life" the same as we do when we make toxic comments online. Complain, write letters/emails to Docker, make your opinion heard, etc. But remember that you are dealing with a fellow human-being, who has thei…
An astounding level of toxicity? One person called the company "jerks" without singling anyone out. Another posted a rage meme to express their displeasure. The overwhelming majority of the hundreds of comments were even more restrained. Perhaps I'm missing some of the more "choice" comments but as a whole I have far more of a problem with the official corporate-speak than the reactions too it.
Re: Docker cannot be downloaded without logging into Docker Store
#383Earlier quoted context omitted.
Docker is just a thin wrapper around Linux (API + namespaces). Dockerfiles frequently install a whole userspace (such as Alpine's or Debian's) as a base, to then add proprietary bits. Basically, Docker can be seen as GPL circumvention device. People aren't entitled so much as they're frustrated as they realize they've given too much control to some inessential piece of commercial software.
In which way does using Docker circumvent the GPL? It's not like Docker images are opaque binary blobs, unless you count tar.gz as opaque.
Re: Docker cannot be downloaded without logging into Docker Store
#384I get it. I hate login-walls too. The level of toxicity in the github issue's conversation is so astounding that I must say something. People on the internet are people. I hope that we don't talk to people in "real life" the same as we do when we make toxic comments online. Complain, write letters/emails to Docker, make your opinion heard, etc. But remember that you are dealing with a fellow human-being, who has thei…
Re: Docker cannot be downloaded without logging into Docker Store
#385It's not a good move, but I don't understand the vitriol expressed on Github, calling the developers jerks etc. Our company has never paid Docker for anything, but we've benefited greatly from having Docker images be the output of our backend build jobs. I never have to dig into classpath errors from conflicting JARs any more, or deal with out of date JDKs living on QA and production machines. I can deploy a dependen…
Docker the company and docker the tooling may have issues, but those Docker images are a life-saver at times.
Re: Docker cannot be downloaded without logging into Docker Store
#386Would it kill companies to be honest and upfront about these sorts of issues? I feel like "Hey, we're unable to pay our bills unless we can better monetize our product" comes across a lot more honest and trust-worthy than this "We're improving user experience! Trust us!" pride-and-accomplishment nonsense that everyone keeps regurgitating. We're not preschoolers, the Internet can spot marketing slogans a mile away.
What's next? Opt-out phone-home, telemetry, crash reporting, quality analytics, whatever you call it. That's my prediction. My Synology personal file server started nagging about enabling telemetry and needing a privacy notice to store my files on my drive on my network. Screw that.
Docker being purchased by Oracle and then users being subject to audits for the audacity of running Docker.
Re: Docker cannot be downloaded without logging into Docker Store
#387I get it. I hate login-walls too. The level of toxicity in the github issue's conversation is so astounding that I must say something. People on the internet are people. I hope that we don't talk to people in "real life" the same as we do when we make toxic comments online. Complain, write letters/emails to Docker, make your opinion heard, etc. But remember that you are dealing with a fellow human-being, who has thei…
Yes I agree. We don't know why Docker did this. It's not a particularly helpful thing to do, but it's just not that major an issue. I think many who posted on the Github issue will later regret the tone of their reaction. The treatment of the Docker employee was particularly nasty.
Well, yes and no. They've said why they've done this:
> we've made this change to make sure we can improve the Docker for Mac and Windows experience for users moving forward.
but at the same time, that explanation is clearly bollocks. Something I realised and find very helpful to remember is this:
> If someone gives a reason for something, and the reason is clearly bullshit, then it means the person giving the reason has a hidden agenda which is likely to be negative for the explainee. - "Will's law of corporate bullshit"
Here's how it works. People do stuff for a reason, for instance I ate lunch because I was hungry. I have opened the windows because it is hot and I like the breeze.
It is usually easy to match the action with the reason given, there is no suspicion here, there is no cognitive dissonance.
So let's take the example in question, Docker moving downloads of their software behind a login. Without attempting to guess at their motivations it seems clear that this is a very inconvenient thing to do for end users. As someone has pointed out, the steps to download the software are nearly doubled, and there are fears of getting corporate spam.
So OK, that's the action, what's the reason given?
> we've made this change to make sure we can improve the Docker for Mac and Windows experience for users moving forward.
Well, that's clearly bullshit, right? It isn't possible to match the reason given with the action. It's not going to allow for a better experience for end users.
Let's apply the logic. Company does something -> Reason given is bullshit -> there is likely a hidden agenda that is bad for the explainee.
So we have arrived at a situation where we are pretty sure that the hidden reason for Docker to make this change is negative. We don't know exactly what yet (we can speculate), but we are pretty sure it's negative.
So you are right, "We don't know why Docker did this", but we can be fairly certain it's not going to be for the benefit of us end users.
Re: Docker cannot be downloaded without logging into Docker Store
#388Earlier quoted context omitted.
An astounding level of toxicity? One person called the company "jerks" without singling anyone out. Another posted a rage meme to express their displeasure. The overwhelming majority of the hundreds of comments were even more restrained. Perhaps I'm missing some of the more "choice" comments but as a whole I have far more of a problem with the official corporate-speak than the reactions too it.
Two wrongs don't make a right. "Jerks", as a comment, is purely subtractive. We're all adults. There are plenty of critiques to their action and their defense. Let's use our words to make reasoned arguments rather than just lashing back.
I would maybe ascribe it to a mismatch in expected decorum, hardly call it toxic. Like, do you expect a church or an informal conversation among peers? Or if you will, a cathedral or a bazaar? :)
And it was just one comment .. "We're all adults" goes both ways, let's not fall all over ourselves because of a little mildly bad word. Personally I don't think that's very constructive either, in the sense that it lights the fire under something that distracts very much from the actual topic.
They called it an astounding level of toxicity. Whatever your thoughts on the expected level of decorum, that seems a tad hyperbolic to call out over usage of the word "jerk". Such hyperbole is definitely not helping, and in my personal opinion, actually more "subtractive" than generically calling a group of people that did something you don't like "jerks". For one thing, it's not astonishing. It just isn't.
Re: Docker cannot be downloaded without logging into Docker Store
#389Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even MySQL community download has a small link at the bottom "No thanks, just start my download.", but no registration is possible despite two very huge buttons that just scream to sign up or sign in to an Oracle account.
The MySQL download page is how I ended up with 3 oracle accounts because I always forgot I had one. The small "no thanks just download" button is (was) very deceptive.
Re: Docker cannot be downloaded without logging into Docker Store
#390I get it. I hate login-walls too. The level of toxicity in the github issue's conversation is so astounding that I must say something. People on the internet are people. I hope that we don't talk to people in "real life" the same as we do when we make toxic comments online. Complain, write letters/emails to Docker, make your opinion heard, etc. But remember that you are dealing with a fellow human-being, who has thei…
Wow. The reaction to your completely reasonable comment shows just how susceptible the "smartest people in the world" are to joining an old fashioned pile-on, or at least justifying it.