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Docker cannot be downloaded without logging into Docker Store

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Re: Docker cannot be downloaded without logging into Docker Store

#351

Post by zeveb »

jchw wrote: post #43
userbinator wrote: post #27

That's what throwaway accounts are for... and this, of course: http://bugmenot.com/view/store.docker.com In any case, "to make sure we can improve the Docker for Mac and Windows experience for users moving forward" is yet another example of the official-sounding-yet-bullshit, vague and meandering language that seems to permeate into everything these days. (Is there a specific term for it? "Business-speak" doesn't hav…

FWIW, as far as I know, Docker for Windows and Docker for Mac really are closed source freeware. My honest opinion is we should move away from it. As for what to move to... That's definitely an open question. Docker for Windows is definitely one of the best developer experiences I've had on Windows because they put actual engineering work into it. All the same, I still found it buggier and less supported than Docker…

> As for what to move to... That's definitely an open question.

Is it really? I find that Linux is an excellent development platform, and also an excellent home-computer OS. I've been using it exclusively in a professional software-development context for over a decade now (prior to that my employer made me use Windows in addition to my Linux box), and I couldn't be happier.

Re: Docker cannot be downloaded without logging into Docker Store

#352

Post by TheGrumpyBrit »

scrollaway wrote: post #195
djflutt3rshy wrote: post #42

Would it kill companies to be honest and upfront about these sorts of issues? I feel like "Hey, we're unable to pay our bills unless we can better monetize our product" comes across a lot more honest and trust-worthy than this "We're improving user experience! Trust us!" pride-and-accomplishment nonsense that everyone keeps regurgitating. We're not preschoolers, the Internet can spot marketing slogans a mile away.

> Would it kill companies to be honest and upfront about these sorts of issues? I feel like "Hey, we're unable to pay our bills unless we can better monetize our product" comes across a lot more honest and trust-worthy than this The problem is that it's almost never that. It's not "we're unable to pay our bills". It's "we've got more money than we need already, but we think we could get a lot more this way". You thin…

Exactly. The reasoning behind this decision is obvious:

"Hey, look at all these downloads CE is getting. We need to start following up with these users to try and promote Enterprise and other products. Start capturing emails at the point of download."

Re: Docker cannot be downloaded without logging into Docker Store

#354

Post by msl09 »

Docker is my perfect example of a OSS being poisoned by excessive money.

OSS needs money to survive but too much of it (a too heavy burden to turn a profit) can poison it leading to significant issues being ignored because either the paying customers are not affected or because the issue is an integral part of the business model.

I wished someone were able to fork docker and strip off all of the extra fluff (mainly service stuff) but I don't think anyone without deep pockets can support such massively complex software.

Re: Docker cannot be downloaded without logging into Docker Store

#355

Post by yAnonymous »

madmax96 wrote: post #334

I get it. I hate login-walls too. The level of toxicity in the github issue's conversation is so astounding that I must say something. People on the internet are people. I hope that we don't talk to people in "real life" the same as we do when we make toxic comments online. Complain, write letters/emails to Docker, make your opinion heard, etc. But remember that you are dealing with a fellow human-being, who has thei…

Lying, especially for company profits or personal gains, is easily one of the most toxic and despicable things to do and people who do it so casually don't deserve a lot of respect.

So yeah, my real life response to that would be very similar.

Re: Docker cannot be downloaded without logging into Docker Store

#356

Post by presscast »

madmax96 wrote: post #334

I get it. I hate login-walls too. The level of toxicity in the github issue's conversation is so astounding that I must say something. People on the internet are people. I hope that we don't talk to people in "real life" the same as we do when we make toxic comments online. Complain, write letters/emails to Docker, make your opinion heard, etc. But remember that you are dealing with a fellow human-being, who has thei…

With all the complaining and name-calling, I'm quite surprised that nobody has proposed forking the project and maintaining a tracking-free version. Certainly, it would appear as if there's a demand for such a project.

Re: Docker cannot be downloaded without logging into Docker Store

#357

Post by aqme28 »

madmax96 wrote: post #334

I get it. I hate login-walls too. The level of toxicity in the github issue's conversation is so astounding that I must say something. People on the internet are people. I hope that we don't talk to people in "real life" the same as we do when we make toxic comments online. Complain, write letters/emails to Docker, make your opinion heard, etc. But remember that you are dealing with a fellow human-being, who has thei…

For the _most_ part I don't see what was so toxic about it.

But compare it with the corporate response. Doing this kind of thing without warning to loyal customers and then being dismissive about it is also very toxic.

Re: Docker cannot be downloaded without logging into Docker Store

#358

Post by cdoxsey »

johnmarcus wrote: post #344
cdoxsey wrote: post #117

Docker is such a mess. As a tool for building containers its cumbersome, has bizarre and frustrating limitations and has issues that haven’t been addressed in years. You can’t use semver for tags, it eats up all your disk space and you have to manually GC it, etc… Multi-build support is basically useless and invariably you end up writing convoluted bash scripts to get the thing to work. Caching is terrible pretty muc…

Wtf are you talking about? I've been running docker in production for 3 years (30+ microservice platform) with litterallly 0 of those problems. Caching works, hence why you need to clean your disk space. And multi stage builds are awesome for many circumstances. It sounds like you don't really understand how to use docker all that well.

You've never had docker do anything weird in production?

It didn't happen often, but we definitely had problems. We're running kubernetes clusters with several hundred nodes.

Caching is very crude. When building its based on lines in the dockerfile which means adding a dependency means redownloading everything. You also can't mount a directory for builds.

Multi stage builds are very limited in what they can do and often aren't powerful enough to implement efficient builds. You end up either having 20 minute builds or complex make files to work around the inefficient default workflow.

FWIW an intelligent caching mechanism should not require manual cleanup. Thankfully kubernetes does this for us in production... but the crazy 1 GB images you end up with for a moderately complex python app make it hard. (especially when people use :latest and then there are 12 versions of the app laying around)

Re: Docker cannot be downloaded without logging into Docker Store

#359

Post by eeZah7Ux »

sbr464 wrote: post #286
marcus_holmes wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because a closed-source company is open about being a for-profit commercial entity that is trying to make a dollar first and foremost. Docker is "revolutionising infrastructure" or something. It doesn't have "make heaps of money" as it's primary goal. Partly this is because open source. There's an expectation that open source is also "for the greater good". The cardinal sin of our times is hypocrisy. Being a money-wo…

What does being open source and being altruistic have to do with each other? Personally, I think they enabled the login, so that new users would be able to use docker cloud, after installing docker, without needing to create an account. But still, being open source, allows you to verify security, be transparent about the product design/intentions, possibly extend or customize for your needs, etc. There is a lot of va…

> What does being open source and being altruistic have to do with each other?

The "open" in "open source" is about encouraging cooperation and collaboration. And not using lock-in or patents or walled gardens to obstruct competition.

If the altruistic aspect is still not obvious: many projects encourage a gift economy by accepting donations.

Astroturfing is really not compatible with what you called "be transparent about the product design/intentions"

Re: Docker cannot be downloaded without logging into Docker Store

#360

Post by BillFranklin »

madmax96 wrote: post #334

I get it. I hate login-walls too. The level of toxicity in the github issue's conversation is so astounding that I must say something. People on the internet are people. I hope that we don't talk to people in "real life" the same as we do when we make toxic comments online. Complain, write letters/emails to Docker, make your opinion heard, etc. But remember that you are dealing with a fellow human-being, who has thei…

Yes I agree. We don't know why Docker did this. It's not a particularly helpful thing to do, but it's just not that major an issue.

I think many who posted on the Github issue will later regret the tone of their reaction. The treatment of the Docker employee was particularly nasty.

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