Nvidia announces RTX 2000 GPU series with ‘6x more performance’ and ray-tracing • Hacker News Board

Re: Nvidia announces RTX 2000 GPU series with ‘6x more performance’ and ray-tracing

#341

Post by dagw » Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 12:03 PM UTC

oblio wrote: post #330

sundvor wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet, going by a scan of people on the train last time I caught it, heaps of people seem to find money for iPhone Xs at almost the same price point. If you're sufficiently dedicated, even with limited funds going for every second or third iteration of halo products can be a great strategy. That way when you get it you'll have the absolutely best there is and a couple of years down the track it'll still be great but ma…

Don't most people get expensive phones because of subsidies from carriers? Or at least, they pay monthly installments for these devices, through data plans (basically). Do people really take out loans to get super expensive video cards?

Do people really take out loans to get super expensive video cards?

Sure. Either by putting on a credit card or by using some sort of in store financing.

Re: Nvidia announces RTX 2000 GPU series with ‘6x more performance’ and ray-tracing

#342

Post by AstralStorm » Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 12:07 PM UTC

elihu wrote: post #162

djsumdog wrote: post #79

I feel like there is a hard limit on rendering tech right now. We saw 4k upgrades to the PS4/xbox and next gen consoles might be a way off. I thought the gaming industry was waiting for hardware that would let you render Marvel movie style graphics. Things that just barely hit that uncanny divide; that would give the player comic book film style immersions. The demo video they posted does look pretty impressive. Is t…

One of the major challenges when trying to generate realistic, believable graphics is correctly modeling ambient light. Without that, adding higher resolution displays or finer polygon meshes won't get you there. The most efficient and accurate methods of modeling ambient light are fundamentally based on ray tracing. Path tracing is probably the best known and most popular, photon mapping is another. They are both ba…

With denoising in place, the inaccuracies manifest as low resolution. (similar to pixellation or blur but not as even)

Apparently nVidia is using a variant of beam tracing if patents are to be believed.

Re: Nvidia announces RTX 2000 GPU series with ‘6x more performance’ and ray-tracing

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Post by oblio » Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 12:10 PM UTC

lagadu wrote: post #340

gambiting wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in software, and I definitely can't spend that much on a GPU, a normal 2080 is more than my monthly rent. The prices are nuts.

They're really not. Compared to many other popular hobbies gaming's yearly cost is really low. Things like audio, photography, cars, warhammer, travelling, winter sports each will have yearly costs that make gaming seem cheap as hell.

Football (soccer) is cheap, so is basketball, traveling can be done on a budget (backpacking, hitchhiking). Board games or card games (not the collectible or trade-able cash-grabbing variety) are also cheap.

There's many expensive hobbies, but also a ton of cheap ones.

Re: Nvidia announces RTX 2000 GPU series with ‘6x more performance’ and ray-tracing

#344

Post by lagadu » Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 12:15 PM UTC

saiya-jin wrote: post #325

Retric wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exchange rates fluctuate, often it’s been ~1.05:1 which is a long way from covering the 20% VAT. Add some uncertainty, stronger consumer protection laws, and smaller markets and the price difference is relatively small.

> the price difference is relatively small Where in reality there shouldn't be any, since sending stuff across the pond costs nothing as seen in products like bananas. At least I live in place which has only 8% VAT, so prices look a bit more like US (but still higher for no good reason)

Sending stuff across the pond is expensive because when importing stuff you pay VAT + import fees on top of what you already paid.

Re: Nvidia announces RTX 2000 GPU series with ‘6x more performance’ and ray-tracing

#345

Post by gspetr » Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 12:23 PM UTC

saiya-jin wrote: post #323

Dylan16807 wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I mean... that's at the point where just the graphics card is more than one of the 4K consoles Microsoft or Sony is putting out. The console might output 4K but that doesn't mean the GPU inside can handle higher settings than a 1060. The $600 GPU is irrelevant to that comparison.

> The console might output 4K but that doesn't mean the GPU inside can handle higher settings than a 1060 Which is kinda irrelevant too, since console games are highly optimized for exactly 1 graphic card & rest of the setup. You get all the details hardware is capable of smoothly, nothing more or less. No fiddling with tons of settings that most have no clue about. I don't get this often used argument - my games loo…

> You get all the details hardware is capable of smoothly, nothing more or less.

The "smoothly" part is far from guaranteed. cough Dying Light cough

> Of course if one pours 5x the amount of money into PC that would be spent on console, there needs to be some inner justification.

IIRC PC game sales are far juicier than their console counterparts, especially if you don't live in 1st world countries.

Re: Nvidia announces RTX 2000 GPU series with ‘6x more performance’ and ray-tracing

#346

Post by gspetr » Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 12:35 PM UTC

gameswithgo wrote: post #242

soupbowl wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What CPU do you have? My 1070 plays doom at 4k no problem.

It is probably just that we have different standards of what a good fps is. For me if its not at 60fps or more ALL the time I'm angry. Grew up playing Quake and Unreal Tournament pretty seriously. For a more casual game like skyrim it might be fine for me.

If you played seriously then you knew enough to turn the settings lower, not higher.

The last thing you want is having your field of view obscured by colorful explosions, bloom, debris, etc. when your opponent has a crystal clear vision on you.

Re: Nvidia announces RTX 2000 GPU series with ‘6x more performance’ and ray-tracing

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Post by matt4077 » Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 12:39 PM UTC

sgt101 wrote: post #132

bitL wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then most likely they would not be successful in their businesses; training older models or newer ones with a batch of 1 is not a recipe for success these days when you more like need 100s of GPUs running slight modifications to models in parallel to find the one that works.

We used to call this model fishing and regard models that came from places that did it with fear and suspicion (due to sudden failure and poor performance in production) What has changed that people think this is a wise approach?

They don't suddenly fail any more, and performance in production is fine... This is a rather empirical science right now.

If forced to speculate, I'd say far larger datasets are part of the answer. If you can afford to hold back 30%+ of your data for (multi-tranche) verification the difference between testing and production becomes a problem for the philosophers.

Re: Nvidia announces RTX 2000 GPU series with ‘6x more performance’ and ray-tracing

#348

Post by def_true_false » Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 12:43 PM UTC

majewsky wrote: post #199

bitL wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2-year warranty easily.

The EU does enforce a "2-year warranty", but it's not what you think. (Speaking as a German:) When you want to replace a broken product under the mandated warranty, then: - In the first 6 months after purchase, the merchant must replace the product unless they can prove the defect was not present at purchase. - After 6 months, the burden of proof reverses, and the customer must prove that the defect in question was a…

> In practice, whatever party has the burden of proof usually doesn't bother.

In practice, I've never had to prove anything within 2 years of purchase. Might be a difference between Germany and other EU countries, but somehow I doubt that.

Re: Nvidia announces RTX 2000 GPU series with ‘6x more performance’ and ray-tracing

#349

Post by ksec » Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 12:53 PM UTC

Are these Ray Tracing Extensions and Hardware going to be exclusive to Nvidia, at least for the time being? Assuming AMD didn't know about it until now and had to work and implement it, it would be at least 3 years before a Ray Tracing hardware are included in their GPU.

And in terms of efficiency, how much better is this Hybrid Ray Tracing (HRT) compared to current Shadow Maps and reflection? I assume the latter needs a lot of fine tuning but are faster while HRT is a lot simpler and slower?

I think right now the "highest" graphics quality isn't bottleneck or most important part at all, ( Whether majority of gamers were able to go to the highest graphics quality is a different question ) we sort of reach that stage some time after Crysis. It is how to reduce the time needed for designer and developers to reach that fidelity. I assume HRT will help designer to get what they want quicker?

Because somewhere along the line, most game developers only wants to give me the best graphics looking gaming possible, and the fun and storyline part seems to have faded. Apart from Nintendo.

P.S To those calling this expensive, the $999 RTX 1080ti gets you a silicon Die Size of 775mm2, along with very fast GDDR6 memory. Even your top of the line CPU don't come close to this die size, let alone the inclusion of memory.

Re: Nvidia announces RTX 2000 GPU series with ‘6x more performance’ and ray-tracing

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Post by matt4077 » Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 12:57 PM UTC

bitL wrote: post #172

blihp wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a spectrum. Not every professional wants and/or can afford the top end cards. Many professionals (i.e. those who make money doing a thing) have been using high-end gaming cards for work pretty much since they existed. There's also the long-running debate as to the actual value of the 'pro' line of video cards for non-mission critical purposes (enough of one that nVidia in their license prohibited the use of gami…

But they are the low-to-mid segment of professionals doing weddings and local business presentations with median income around $50k. The ones doing interesting work can't live without real 10-bit HDR on calibrated 4k screens for realistic printing/video projections, without proper 5k+ RAW cameras and top-end lens etc. and those are extremely expensive.

Every self-declared "professional" I've met spent most of their time unproductively fiddling with their equipment.

While a select few can push the envelope with technology alone, a bit of talent seems to easily compensate for almost any technological limitations. The "latest and greatest" is the easy route to mediocracy.

That's been true for all creative disciplines: from photography to writing to animation. There might even be a mechanism, where inferior (or at least different) tools may be a restriction that nurtures creativity, or at least guarantees results that are easily distinguished from the rest of the market.