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Tiny Plastic Is Everywhere

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Re: Tiny Plastic Is Everywhere

#141

Post by trumped »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #138
lwanga wrote: post #136

"Scientists call the tiny pieces "microplastics" and define them as objects smaller than 5 millimeters — about the size of one of the letters on a computer keyboard." I am not quite understanding this sentence. Size of the letters on a computer keyboard!? What?

An attempt at explaining metric measures to Americans by referencing something readers of an online article should have ready access to.

could have said 3/16" and it would have been close enough (but either way, it is pretty big)

edit: Most Americans know what 3/16" is, right?

Re: Tiny Plastic Is Everywhere

#142

Post by keithnz »

erulabs wrote: post #104
c3534l wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Taxes don't work to work to change behavior This is absolute nonsense and flies in the face of established economic theory backed up by empirical evidence. I don't understand why there are so many people in this thread pulling assertions out of their ass like this. HackerNews is better than that.

Unfortunately the planet Earth is not a laboratory, and correlation is not causation. If a tax is added to cigarettes, and the tax is passed by elected officials, and the elected officials are responding to the attitude of the populace, how do we know it was the tax, and not _the attitude of the populace_ that lead to lower cigarette usage? A classic example of this is the Civil Rights Act. Did racism become abhorren…

in NZ we have automatic rolling tax increase every year on tobacco, and we see the reduction and is well studied.

We don't need to know absolutely the exact causal link, we just need to know while in this configuration, this trend is happening. Maybe certain things aren't needed for that trend, but like you say, we don't have the capability of much experiementing, we can have a lot of robust debate and make our best educated guesses and try different things and see what happens.

Re: Tiny Plastic Is Everywhere

#143

Post by anonu »

nostromo wrote: post #109

A small number of countries are responsible for the majority of plastic in the ocean. China is far and away the worst offender: https://infographic.statista.com/normal/chartoftheday_12211_... https://www.iswa.org/fileadmin/user_upload/Calendar_2011_03_...

doesn't help that many countries send their recyclables to China as well... If people could handle their own waste instead of shipping it off to another country, might make people more conscientious of their consumerism.

Re: Tiny Plastic Is Everywhere

#144

Post by pokemongoaway »

kingkawn wrote: post #107

Personal anecdote; just got back from a trip to Hawaii. Many of the beaches there had significant deposits of pebble sized and smaller visible plastic particles. Presumably there’s exponentially more smaller ones that I couldn’t as easily see. Some of the beaches had plastic floating in the water. Locals said it wasn’t island dumped garbage, it was brought in from currents from the ocean. Horrific to see.

Which island?

Re: Tiny Plastic Is Everywhere

#146

Post by tylerhou »

kingkawn wrote: post #111
fenwick67 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it really have a smaller footprint? I'd love to see numbers

Not adding eternally polluting particles to the environment seems like it must have smaller footprint

Organic != pollutes less. For example, some organic farms use more than an order of magnitude more (~20x) organic pesticides than regular farms use regular pesticides (by weight). Many of these organic pesticides have the potential for serious health risks. One organic pesticide, Rotenone, which was banned in the US in 2005 but reapproved in 2010, causes "Parkinson's Disease-like symptoms in rats, and has the potential to kill many species, including humans." [0]

Organic farming also often requires more resources (land, water, etc.). The ecological damage of that extra resource use (soil erosion, water diversion) could far surpass any pollutants non-organic farms spew. [0]

I don't know anything about cotton specifically, though.

[0] https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/science-sushi/httpblogs... (see myths 1 and 3)

Re: Tiny Plastic Is Everywhere

#147

Post by exabrial »

francisofascii wrote: post #57
exabrial wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couple of points: Taxes don't work to work to change behavior, or people would have stopped speeding a long time ago, sugary drinks wouldn't sell in Seattle, and people would stop buying coffee in California. They are an unfortunate excuse used by politicians to fool the public into "hey I'm doing something!". Instead, innovation is needed around providing biodegradable solutions that can outcompete their plastic cou…

Increasing the cost of something (through taxes) most definitely changes behavior. Just look at a how plastic bag taxes reduced usage or cigarette taxes. The purpose is not to stop plastic usage entirely, but to recognize the true cost of the usage by factoring in the harmful effects now rather than down the road. That make it a fair market, not an artificial one. I agree research and innovation is needed, and tax re…

Would you agree that taxes has had a bigger impact on smokers than education [about addiction/cancer] and availability of vaping?

Re: Tiny Plastic Is Everywhere

#148

Post by selectodude »

stephengillie wrote: post #130
kingkawn wrote: post #107

Personal anecdote; just got back from a trip to Hawaii. Many of the beaches there had significant deposits of pebble sized and smaller visible plastic particles. Presumably there’s exponentially more smaller ones that I couldn’t as easily see. Some of the beaches had plastic floating in the water. Locals said it wasn’t island dumped garbage, it was brought in from currents from the ocean. Horrific to see.

Just got back from a trip asking the Washington State coast, including Westport and Ocean Shores, and Birch Bay near Bellingham. The beaches were nearly pristine, for the number of people there. I only saw the occasional lost sandal on the various beaches, and a few beer cans near bonfire dugouts. I was surprised at the lack of plastic and debris, given reports like yours. Is there a state or federal agency that comb…

Usually the municipality sweeps the beach every morning.

Re: Tiny Plastic Is Everywhere

#149

Post by mehrdadn »

rhacker wrote: post #132
mehrdadn wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Taxes don't work to work to change behavior, or people would have stopped speeding a long time ago, sugary drinks wouldn't sell in Seattle, and people would stop buying coffee in California. You do realize "work" isn't a binary thing?

Cigarettes can be an indicator: http://www.nber.org/papers/w18326 > Our evidence suggests that increases in cigarette taxes are associated with small decreases in cigarette consumption and that it will take sizable tax increases, on the order of 100%, to decrease adult smoking by as much as 5%.

Yeah, though cigarettes are actually biologically addictive... probably not the best comparison point against plastics.

Re: Tiny Plastic Is Everywhere

#150

Post by victorology »

anonu wrote: post #143
nostromo wrote: post #109

A small number of countries are responsible for the majority of plastic in the ocean. China is far and away the worst offender: https://infographic.statista.com/normal/chartoftheday_12211_... https://www.iswa.org/fileadmin/user_upload/Calendar_2011_03_...

doesn't help that many countries send their recyclables to China as well... If people could handle their own waste instead of shipping it off to another country, might make people more conscientious of their consumerism.

Just learned this recently as well. I live in Korea where I learned they were shipping waste to China. Recently, I believe China shut this off and we've been made much more conscious about our waste in Korea within the past year.
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