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Nvidia announces RTX 2000 GPU series with ‘6x more performance’ and ray-tracing

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Re: Nvidia announces RTX 2000 GPU series with ‘6x more performance’ and ray-tracing

#221
post #12

Hmm, 24%-42% performance increase (14/16TFlops vs 11.3TFlops) for 70-90% price increase... And prices were already inflated by crypto that is now collapsing. Not sure who is the target market for this tech honestly. Still only 11GB RAM, even if 50% faster, making it a nonsense purchase for Deep Learning enthusiasts (state-of-art models are already larger). Unless somebody invented RTX-based coin of course, then this…

The "target audience" is the hype train. If you believe Nvidia has a better long term future, that's good for Nvidia. Stuff like this trickles down to the main stream eventually.

Re: Nvidia announces RTX 2000 GPU series with ‘6x more performance’ and ray-tracing

#222
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those prices are Nvidia's OC Founder's Editions. The non-OC versions are actually: RTX 2080 Ti: $999 RTX 2080: $699 RTX 2079: $499 Source: https://i.imgur.com/LrUitua.png

I assume the OC versions simply have a bit toggled in the VBIOS?

No, you're free to do your own OC. But how much OC your chip will be able to handle is unknown. It's called silicon lottery.

Re: Nvidia announces RTX 2000 GPU series with ‘6x more performance’ and ray-tracing

#223
post #219
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>70-90% price increase... And prices were already inflated by crypto If you are going off the inflated prices, this is hardly a price increase at all. 70% is the increase from 1080 Ti release price, not from the inflated crypto prices.

I meant that the release price was subsequently inflated by crypto which in the meantime cooled down significantly; if crypto were still hot, then inflated 20x0 prices would be expected; this seems more like an opportunistic move, "residual crypto-wave surfing", and resembles strategy NVidia was doing in pro segment for a while due to no competition.

1080ti launched in March 2017 before the big 2017 boom.

Re: Nvidia announces RTX 2000 GPU series with ‘6x more performance’ and ray-tracing

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends what you mean by 'needs'. The combination of dedicated ray tracing acceleration hardware and APIs to drive it with some remarkable advances in denoising, in part driven by deep learning plus associated dedicated hardware, means that we are at a threshold where hybrid techniques that mix rasterization with ray tracing are viable for games and can advance the state of the art in real time rendered image quality…

Yes, I'm only talking about "non-hybrid" GI - I.e. what is needed to play a game looking the same in terms of detail, sharpness etc. as a rasterized game does today, at 4k/60 or 2k/144, but using path tracing. Hybrid (shadows, reflections only) already works today and looks pretty impressive. But just a rough guestimate of how many more rays/pixel we need to play a AAA game with PT only? I'm thinking 1000 times.

I think we'll get there with less than a 1000x increase in raw compute due to a combination of factors.

For one, ray tracing in hardware is new. We've had many years of clever techniques to improve efficiency of rasterization in hardware so overall performance has improved faster than raw compute. I think we can expect similar improvements for ray tracing.

We're also likely to see new algorithmic advances that let us get better results with fewer rays. There was a whole course at SIGGRAPH on applying machine learning to light transport problems, things like learning probability distributions for irradiance to do more effective importance sampling with promising results. Combined with the advances in denoising there's a lot of potential for improved results without more rays there. Lots of scope to take more advantage of temporal coherence I think too.

On the hardware side there is still room to scale wider for ray tracing. It's getting hard to make transistors smaller or faster bit there's still some room for putting more of them on a chip it seems.

Combine all these and I think we're a lot closer than a 1000x increase in raw compute to real time path traced games. Primary rays might still be rasterized though, it still has coherence advantages.

Re: Nvidia announces RTX 2000 GPU series with ‘6x more performance’ and ray-tracing

#225
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, state of the art doesn't require GPU farms, just a couple in a consumer desktop will do.

Lookup AmoebaNet-D if you think you don't need a GPU farm these days. Those were times when 1-2 GPUs were enough...

You know, there is more to deep learning research than meta-learning/architecture exploration. Sure you can explore the hyper-parameter space faster with 500 GPUs and get yet again a 0.05% better test score on ImageNet (or more I don't actually know), but there are other ways to do something meaningful in DL without using such compute power.

Re: Nvidia announces RTX 2000 GPU series with ‘6x more performance’ and ray-tracing

#226
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm gaming at 4k60fps ultra everything modern games on a single 1080ti right now.

Lucky you! Head over to /r/nvidia and read which games just can't cut it on 4k@60 Ultra.

It's a graphics card running a computer program.

Did you expect it to run everything forever at an extremely high resolution with 60fps?

Why are Nvidia releasing new cards then?

Re: Nvidia announces RTX 2000 GPU series with ‘6x more performance’ and ray-tracing

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't matter if they aren't "kids" anymore or not, there's a reason AMD focused hard on the $200-300 range for graphics cards - because that's where most buyers budgets are. There are people who spend more, but even many enthusiasts are shopping in the $400-500 segment for a card to support high-refresh-rate gaming or higher resolutions like 1440P, the number of people who blow $800+ on a GPU like a 1080 Ti are few…

Nvidia's market cap is nearly 8x that of AMD. Volume =/= profit.

NVDA also has a significantly higher market share than AMD does right now, that doesn't change that $200-300 is still the most common price point for consumer GPU purchases.

Current Steam user survey results (now that the over-counting issue has been fixed) shows the GTX 1060 as the single most popular GPU installed by active Steam users with a 12.5% market share, the GTX 1050 Ti and 1050 take second and third place with ~9.5% and ~6% respectively that means about 30% of Steam users have a current-gen GPU in the $200-300 price range.

So yes, volume != profit, but the consumer obviously trends towards more reasonably priced cards. Cards in the Titan price-point that NVidia is trying to sell the RTX 2080 Ti at are so uncommon that they get lumped into the 'other' category of the Steam survey - and since I highly doubt magic like doing integer operations in tandem with FP32 operations is going to bring that much of a performance improvement to the majority of gaming workloads in tandem with the really weak raw numbers of the just-announced cards (fewer TFLOPS on the 2080 than the 1080 Ti selling in the same price bracket) it's obvious Nvidia is really taking the piss with their pricing. You're paying more for raytracing, that's it - and while it's certainly a cool feature I don't really see gamers caring that much until it becomes usable at that $200-300 price point.

Re: Nvidia announces RTX 2000 GPU series with ‘6x more performance’ and ray-tracing

#228

I feel like there is a hard limit on rendering tech right now. We saw 4k upgrades to the PS4/xbox and next gen consoles might be a way off. I thought the gaming industry was waiting for hardware that would let you render Marvel movie style graphics. Things that just barely hit that uncanny divide; that would give the player comic book film style immersions. The demo video they posted does look pretty impressive. Is t…

next-gen consoles are likely releasing 2020

Re: Nvidia announces RTX 2000 GPU series with ‘6x more performance’ and ray-tracing

#229
post #13

The prices are obscene. The '70 tier has usually been my tier of choice, but they're sliding that up from the $400 range to the $600 range. I actually just scored a 1080 in the realm of $400, presumably because crypto demand dived, and they had a lot of stock coming into the new generation announcement. I'm glad I got it, because it's going to be a while before I touch cards at these price points. Presumably when the…

I think I spent $300 for a 970 and I've been keeping an eye out for something that has 2x the performance at the same price. I guess the replacement will be the 2050?

I think I'm in the same boat as you - but I'm hoping for 1.5x performance and a bit less heat / power usage.

I think I'll leave the "4K" gaming to the Xbox One X.

Re: Nvidia announces RTX 2000 GPU series with ‘6x more performance’ and ray-tracing

#230
Is ray-tracing a very large improvement for rendering quality or do you have diminishing returns now that "conventional" rendering techniques already employ such good heuristics and approximations to make the scenes look good?

Just curious since I don't know much about the state of the art of rendering and the implication of ray-tracing (other than the fact that it's, somewhat trivially by how it works, the most accurate method).

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