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HTC Willfully Violates the GPL in T-Mobile's New G2 Android Phone

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Re: HTC Willfully Violates the GPL in T-Mobile's New G2 Android Phone

#31

Post by Pyrodogg »

jrockway wrote: post #22
timdorr wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people preached the benefits of rooting make a very compelling case. And often this case is to very dumb people. Dumb people like to complain. Loudly. Remember from their perspective, 99% of all the feedback they get back (that they don't have to pay for) is negative. Therefore, they are solely concentrated on reducing that negative feedback by preventing failure in the first place. They view these protections a…

The same is true of bookshelves, cordless drills, computers, and anything else that people can buy. Someone will always find a way to fuck up the assembly, modifications, or general use. But there is no EULA on my bookshelf saying I can't modify it. So why are mobile phones different? (My guess: "because we can". Nobody has figured out how to make a bookshelf that I can't put something too heavy on. But people have f…

Before and at the time of purchase most people don't think about the EULA or it's consequences. It's merely part of the shrink wrap that needs to be removed to enjoy the shiny new product.

Perhaps if it were something consequential instead of something to click through it would actually affect peoples habits.

Re: HTC Willfully Violates the GPL in T-Mobile's New G2 Android Phone

#32

Post by evilduck »

jsz0 wrote: post #27
Osiris wrote: post #7

What I don't understand is why phone manufactures are even worried about rooting. If it's about service and warranty, they can simply make it clear that replacing the OS voids the warranty and they won't provide service for the phone. Besides warranty and service costs, what else are they so worried about that they feel it necessary to add these protection measures? Surely the percent of customers that root/mod a pho…

It may be a small minority of people rooting their phones but from the carrier perspective they're the ones who would otherwise be willing to pay $20-$30/month for a wireless tethering plan.

This is the same false perspective as the RIAA believing a pirated copy equals a lost sale though, and we've seen how well that has worked out.

Re: HTC Willfully Violates the GPL in T-Mobile's New G2 Android Phone

#33

Post by eli »

al_james wrote: post #21
regularfry wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carrier control, most likely. I'm sure HTC are being lobbied hard by carriers who want to be able to use artificial restrictions to segment their offerings.

Exactly. Phone manufactures are in the pocket of the carriers (as google proved with the Nexus one, you can't sell phones without carrier relations) and carriers don't like rooting as it limited their options to block certain software and services (e.g. VOIP / tethering).

Perhaps it's setting things up for the future, but the carrier in question here, T Mobile, is notable for its openness in not blocking tethering or voip.

Re: HTC Willfully Violates the GPL in T-Mobile's New G2 Android Phone

#34

Post by sprout »

rbanffy wrote: post #30
roel_v wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it's because virus writers also to try to root the devices to install rootkits. I'm quite in favor of requiring hardware mods (although I'd prefer a jumper...) to modify the OS.

Has anyone really ever seen a real phone virus?

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10393136-37.html

You'll note it only hit jailbroken iPhones.

Re: HTC Willfully Violates the GPL in T-Mobile's New G2 Android Phone

#35

Post by al_james »

eli wrote: post #33
al_james wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Phone manufactures are in the pocket of the carriers (as google proved with the Nexus one, you can't sell phones without carrier relations) and carriers don't like rooting as it limited their options to block certain software and services (e.g. VOIP / tethering).

Perhaps it's setting things up for the future, but the carrier in question here, T Mobile, is notable for its openness in not blocking tethering or voip.

I should imagine the decision about how much protection is applied to the system is made long before the device is accepted on various carriers. Ok, this is a 'made for T-mobile' device, but its likely it will appear in almost the same form on other carriers under another name and HTC branding. So, it would be easier to build in the protection other networks want at this this early stage.

Re: HTC Willfully Violates the GPL in T-Mobile's New G2 Android Phone

#37

Post by protomyth »

Osiris wrote: post #7

What I don't understand is why phone manufactures are even worried about rooting. If it's about service and warranty, they can simply make it clear that replacing the OS voids the warranty and they won't provide service for the phone. Besides warranty and service costs, what else are they so worried about that they feel it necessary to add these protection measures? Surely the percent of customers that root/mod a pho…

Even saying "No" costs money. Plus, some customer's tech buddy / kid will do the "upgrade" for them to make the phone "better", the customer will encounter a problem, and then the carrier's support explanation of rooting will make no sense. How often have you seen someone help someone else by changing some settings on their computer?

Re: HTC Willfully Violates the GPL in T-Mobile's New G2 Android Phone

#38

Post by sprout »

bdonlan wrote: post #24
jackolas wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just bring legal action or ask the SLFC to investigate.

Only a copyright holder can bring legal action in this case. If you're just a customer, you can't bring action by yourself, as you're not a party to the violation or license agreement between HTC and the copyright holder(s).

If you've bought a G2, you are a copyright holder for the code in question.

Re: HTC Willfully Violates the GPL in T-Mobile's New G2 Android Phone

#39

Post by mrj »

protomyth wrote: post #37
Osiris wrote: post #7

What I don't understand is why phone manufactures are even worried about rooting. If it's about service and warranty, they can simply make it clear that replacing the OS voids the warranty and they won't provide service for the phone. Besides warranty and service costs, what else are they so worried about that they feel it necessary to add these protection measures? Surely the percent of customers that root/mod a pho…

Even saying "No" costs money. Plus, some customer's tech buddy / kid will do the "upgrade" for them to make the phone "better", the customer will encounter a problem, and then the carrier's support explanation of rooting will make no sense. How often have you seen someone help someone else by changing some settings on their computer?

Often, sure. But that's no excuse for locking people out of their own hardware. Mobile platforms are the future computers for many people, and we simply cannot accept a future where the carriers and manufacturers control all aspects of computing.

Re: HTC Willfully Violates the GPL in T-Mobile's New G2 Android Phone

#40

Post by doki_pen »

codedivine wrote: post #9
hartror wrote: post #3

"within 90 to 120 days" Maybe this tactic has something to do with product life cycle though I can't think what. Surely a phone has a longer shelf life than 3 months . .

Well it may not necessarily be malicious. Maybe the developers responsible for say preparing the source tarball properly have just been given a lot of other pressing work.

There is no preparing. They don't own the code. They need to release it in exactly the same state it was in when deployed as binary. Otherwise, they are violating copyright (often referred to as pirates).

That said, I'm almost certain that the linux kernel is released under a modified form of the GPL, or at least Linus refuses to enforce parts of the GPL. Binary modules and blobs are a clear violation of GPL, but they exist in the Linux kernel to a great extent. There has been some fighting over the issue in the past.

At any rate, I know that Linus is not as adamant about freedom as RMS. He's using the GPL as a tool and not a principal. There was the whole Tivo-ization argument, where Linus supported the hardware manufacturer and RMS released GPLv3 explicitly forbidding that type of stuff.

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