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Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

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Re: Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

#111

Post by buboard »

no1youknowz wrote: post #70

I'll probably get Uber down voted for this, but this is my experience from the last 2 years in preparing to get a startup of the ground. Here's some relevant data points: 1) I have contacted over 400 service providers in multiple sectors to provide services to the startup. * Yes that's not a typo. 400 companies have been emailed, then called. I don't mind picking up the phone and talking to someone. 2) Of the 12 serv…

As a solo founder i also found it easier to deal with american companies. I've had payment processors offering free consultation how to increase our revenue, and in general it feels like there is more trust among businesses there. In addition, being a non-US citizen actually makes it easier for me, as I avoid the cumbersome tax compliance. Europe can have its positives as well, e.g. i m very pleased with Hetzner's offerings but for most things you are left to figure out things on your own. There 's also an entrenched culture of EU-subsidized startups which are basically shell companies for academics etc, that rarely progress beyond that stage.

Re: Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

#112

Post by buboard »

icebraining wrote: post #89
Annatar wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly don't know why you got down-voted for this: I can confirm from first hand experience that everything you wrote is a fact. This place often makes no sense whatsoever in what is considered good or bad.

I didn't downvote, but the post is not very informative, at least for someone who doesn't already know what they're talking about, like you. It's not very clear what's the relationship being implied between bureaucracy and grants, which grants are those, or how do they differ between the US vs EU. For reference, I've worked at a couple of EU startups, and we didn't get any grants. It's not like you just get money for…

I think their point about grant-getters is spot-on. Thousands of companies exist just to apply for EU grants, get them, come up with a half-assed prototype and then quit the project. Unless you have connections in government in which case sometimes you can have a second and third half-assed product.

Of course there are also many non-gov-funded startups. However 1) it is demoralizing to see them getting millions in handouts while you struggle to sell a product and 2) they keep many talented employees trapped in deadend-companies.

Re: Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

#113

Post by zaarn »

Roritharr wrote: post #52
Fnoord wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't compare a US salary with a EU salary 1:1. In the EU you get retirement money, you get health insurance, and all kind of other benefits. You need to calculate all these positive and negative and then compare. And that's a lot of work!

The problem with this is that neither retirement nor health insurance has a guaranteed quality level, if the government reaches a slump or decides to refocus on other things, you can't get a refund/reinvest. If I look at my governmental retirement projections, although i have been working and paying into it since age 20 it's depressing how little inflation adjusted retirement money I'll receive, although I earn a goo…

If your issue isn't an emergency then yes, you'll be thrown out of emergency rooms because frankly they have much more important issues to deal with than a stubbed toe or a persistent cold.

Re: Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

#114

Post by repolfx »

Annatar wrote: post #94
repolfx wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switzerland isn't closed off to immigration and working on clamping down with all their might, I wonder where you got that impression. It's the opposite. It allows unlimited immigration from the EU. The people voted against that it's true, but the government ignored the referendum and implemented a local worker preference instead. But with unemployment very low anyway, it is easy to argue you could not find a Swiss p…

There are plenty of elder Swiss who’d gladly work if they only had the opportunity but are ausgesteuert instead, so there can be no argument about not being able to find the natives to do the work. Finding someone malleable and willing to work for peanuts is the issue here, not a lack of qualified domestic work force. The 7000 contingency limit clause for EU citizens has been triggered, and we know how the last refer…

Was there ever a time when B-permits were easy to get outside the country? I had to come in on an L and convert, most people I know also had that experience.

I agree that immigration is a hot topic. However I'm not sure what difference more referendums will make if the government feels free to ignore them. Perhaps they'll have a change of heart.

Re: Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

#115

Post by AstralStorm »

zaarn wrote: post #113
Roritharr wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this is that neither retirement nor health insurance has a guaranteed quality level, if the government reaches a slump or decides to refocus on other things, you can't get a refund/reinvest. If I look at my governmental retirement projections, although i have been working and paying into it since age 20 it's depressing how little inflation adjusted retirement money I'll receive, although I earn a goo…

If your issue isn't an emergency then yes, you'll be thrown out of emergency rooms because frankly they have much more important issues to deal with than a stubbed toe or a persistent cold.

Or required cardiac surgery, unless you're actually dying. Even if you cannot make a meter on an ergometer.

Re: Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

#116

Post by AstralStorm »

knbknb wrote: post #97

I'm from Europe, and I like the Paul Graham Essay from 2006, http://www.paulgraham.com/siliconvalley.html , where he claims there are 3 necessary conditions to build a startup ecosystem in any city or region: 1. A large city or metropolitan area with high quality of life according to nerds and their preferences 2. excellent universities or career opportunities, so young gifted people are motivated to move there from…

Generally 3 begets 2 - the universities are mostly there yet no good startup scene.

Most large cities do 1 right.

The thing is, investors around here are either small or risk averse and indeed hiring is harder.

Re: Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

#117

Post by detaro »

fit2rule wrote: post #106
andyroid wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are seriously arguing that the threat of starving is how you want to motivate people to work for you? Sorry but I doubt European bureaucracy is what’s holding your companies back.

The threat of starving isn't holding anyone back, and I didn't say anything about the people working for me - however the decadence of having a safety net means fewer real risks are taken, and certainly less responsibility for the basics. It means the people who work for me don't have to work too hard to keep their jobs - after all, the government will take care of them if I have to fire them for under performance. W…

Europeans not caring about keeping their jobs, what? That's so far from reality...

Re: Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

#118

Post by kazen44 »

dejv wrote: post #8
ggm wrote: post #6

... yea because the industrial design inherent in ARM holdings or the original iPod or iPhone or Olivetti design or SAP... (Sigh) Why can't Bloomberg do real research?

Also like half of the all manufacturing equipment, tons of medical/laboratory devices and what not. The only thing that Europe lack behind is home grown ad-fueled consumer startups.

this is really the invisible giant.

Things like machines which manufacture machines for instance.

a good friend of mine works at a glass blowing company which makes beer bottles, the machines used to create bottlecaps at an insane rate are apparantly dominated by a german manufacturer. (this factory produces over 15mil bottles a day).

producing 15 million bottle caps in a single 24h shift is hard, producing stuff this quickly at suchs a scale is a hard problem to fix.

Re: Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

#119

Post by mariushn »

no1youknowz wrote: post #70

I'll probably get Uber down voted for this, but this is my experience from the last 2 years in preparing to get a startup of the ground. Here's some relevant data points: 1) I have contacted over 400 service providers in multiple sectors to provide services to the startup. * Yes that's not a typo. 400 companies have been emailed, then called. I don't mind picking up the phone and talking to someone. 2) Of the 12 serv…

Thanks for sharing your relevant experience so in depth!

I'm looking for a business problem to solve. From your needs/research, would you have any suggestions on what I could tackle? My email is marius@juvmed.com

Appreciate your feedback.

Re: Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

#120

Post by fit2rule »

detaro wrote: post #117
fit2rule wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The threat of starving isn't holding anyone back, and I didn't say anything about the people working for me - however the decadence of having a safety net means fewer real risks are taken, and certainly less responsibility for the basics. It means the people who work for me don't have to work too hard to keep their jobs - after all, the government will take care of them if I have to fire them for under performance. W…

Europeans not caring about keeping their jobs, what? That's so far from reality...

Hardly. The safety net means they don't have to work so hard at keeping the job, because if they lose it: the government will take care of them. This has knock-on effects all over the organisation.. including productivity issues.
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