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What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

reuters.com

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Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#61

Post by Leary »

ballooney wrote: post #19
ericjang wrote: post #2

Hypothetically speaking, if one is opposed to some or all aspects of the "One China" doctrine, what can one do locally/globally to effect change? Or is the annexation of Taiwan a near-certainty via the forces of economics?

Don't buy stuff that's made in China, and optionally (but importantly) then email that CEO of the company whose stuff you decided not to buy that was made in China, explaining why. The dragon doesn't care what you say about it so long as it's still being fed.

Why does Foxconn have its operations in Mainland China when it's a Taiwanese firm? Should I email them and convince them to move out of China?

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#62

Post by ohazi »

jacksproit wrote: post #52
enraged_camel wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dragon is not going to care about what the ants are doing. It will only care if other dragons start taking collective action. “Vote with your wallet” is bullshit.

Vote with your wallet is very effective with an educated populace.

So essentially, not effective at all.

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#63

Post by pascoej »

graeme wrote: post #41
tsuabing wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a Taiwanese millienial and I am deeply offended by this comment. Why would you say that the claim is understandable? ? Taiwan has been an independent democratic country with its own military, economy, culture, government, rules of law, and international relations for over 50 years. The current Chinese government has never ruled over the island. Not to mention most Taiwanese currently support independence, especi…

You are not in a strong position, unfortunately. The rest of the world broadly agrees that China and Taiwan are the same country. You don't have representation in the UN, or formal recognition from most countries. Your biggest advantage was economic. But China's growth means you are now tiny compared to them, and you have a reduced ability to pay other countries for diplomatic recognition. Unlike the poster you repli…

It's interesting that the Taiwanese passport has visa free travel to 126 countries while the Chinese only has has visa free travel to 78.

Also super weird that the US continues to sell billions of dollars of arms to Taiwan.

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#64

Post by Leary »

amaccuish wrote: post #12

> There is an ongoing discussion about China weaponizing tourism And America tried the same tatic with Cuba and many other countries. It's an effective tatic. China isn't doing anything new that hasn't been done before.

Why do we still have an embargo on Cuba?

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#65

Post by SllX »

graeme wrote: post #47
canhascodez wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what sense are Taiwan and China the same country? China has acted as a bully to deny the independent status of Taiwan, but I have no idea why you think that they don't have the right to self-determination.

In the "do other countries recognize Taiwan as a country" sense. Generally speaking, the answer is that they don't. That means Taiwan's independence is only de facto, not de jure, and that is a very bad thing for Taiwan's prospects. Particularly in a world where China now has much more economic power than Taiwan. I'm not talking about "right". Like I said, I think Taiwan should be independent. But, I'm not optimistic…

With all due respect, the difference between de facto and de jure is just smoke and mirrors. Taiwan has been an effectively independent nation for over 50 years with fairly well defined borders and an inept organization like the United Nations is hardly your golden ticket for staking your sovereignty out on the map when the world is ruled by money, guns, drugs, and superior technology in approximately that order.

The United States still has enough force in the area to force the PRC's hand if it invaded Taiwan tomorrow, but quite frankly I think Taiwan has better prospects of seeing the next 50 years as an independent nation than the United Nations does existing in 50 years.

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#66

Post by Naga »

knuththetruth wrote: post #26
coldtea wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am a Taiwanese millienial and I am deeply offended by this comment. Why would you say that the claim is understandable? ? Taiwan has been an independent democratic country with its own military, economy, culture, government, rules of law, and international relations for over 50 years. Doesn't this answer your own question? 50 years are nothing in historical terms.

The British tried a similar narrative with the War of 1812, and we in America are still alive and kicking. I hope the same for Taiwan and their independence.

If you remember, the United States declared war on Britain, not the other way around. Britain also arguably won the war since the result was status quo ante bellum, which is all that Britain wanted since they were at war with France at the same time for over a decade.

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#67

Post by skh »

tsuabing wrote: post #13
skh wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that Taiwan will eventually merge with the mainland. Perhaps via the two-systems one China route that Hong Kong did. The claims of mainland China on Taiwan are understandable and I don't fault them for their perspective on the issue. Is the United States really willing to go to war with China over this? I don't think so. Are Thailand, Vietnam, Japan, South Korea, the Philippines willing to go to war with Ch…

I am a Taiwanese millienial and I am deeply offended by this comment. Why would you say that the claim is understandable? ? Taiwan has been an independent democratic country with its own military, economy, culture, government, rules of law, and international relations for over 50 years. The current Chinese government has never ruled over the island. Not to mention most Taiwanese currently support independence, especi…

It’s possible to understand a perspective while not agreeing with it. When Chiang fled to Taiwan wasn’t Taiwan considered part of China? You can’t understand why the successors to the victors of the civil war in mainland China want to control Taiwan? There are now two Chinas. It’s understandable that some want there to be one China.

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#68

Post by tsuabing »

nabla9 wrote: post #39
tsuabing wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a Taiwanese millienial and I am deeply offended by this comment. Why would you say that the claim is understandable? ? Taiwan has been an independent democratic country with its own military, economy, culture, government, rules of law, and international relations for over 50 years. The current Chinese government has never ruled over the island. Not to mention most Taiwanese currently support independence, especi…

You have my sympathies. Just remember that nobody can give you your independence when China challenges it. You must take it and be prepared to pay heavy price for it. When China forces others to choose side, most of the world looks at what is in their own national interest, not what is fair. Even if China is not ready to invade, they can learn from Russian type frozen conflict, sanctions and blockades. Slow paced con…

Thanks for the kind words. We are always prepared to defend our country. Also, visit Taiwan!! it's a gorgeous island with warm friendly people and delicious food.

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#69

Post by Leary »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #49
amaccuish wrote: post #12

> There is an ongoing discussion about China weaponizing tourism And America tried the same tatic with Cuba and many other countries. It's an effective tatic. China isn't doing anything new that hasn't been done before.

No. A) Cuba w/Soviets pointed nuclear missiles at the US. Iran's government perpetually declares they want to destroy the US. that's a tad offside compared to 'listing Taiwan as a country'. B) The US very very rarely controls where it's citizens can go. The moral/relative arguments used by the pro/defend China camp are tiring.

Why does the US still embargo Cuba when it's no longer a military threat? Do you think that Cubans in Florida play an outsized role in US politics?

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#70

Post by Leary »

perl4ever wrote: post #38
amaccuish wrote: post #12

> There is an ongoing discussion about China weaponizing tourism And America tried the same tatic with Cuba and many other countries. It's an effective tatic. China isn't doing anything new that hasn't been done before.

It's reasonable to note that it's a much smaller offense in this case than with Cuba, regardless of what one may think of the merits. There's a difference between holding a grudge over acts like expropriation and revolution and trying to enforce correct speaking and writing by everyone. The latter seems hypersensitive and quixotic. It would be silly if the US cut off travel to Canada because they recognized the exist…

Do you think in the Civil War, the US would've cut off travel to the UK if the UK recognized the Confederate States of America?
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