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Self-Driving Car Makers Prepare to Blame “Jaywalkers”

usa.streetsblog.org

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Re: Self-Driving Car Makers Prepare to Blame “Jaywalkers”

#21

Post by repsilat »

a3n wrote: post #7

My ignorant understanding is that pedestrians have the right-of-way, even mid-block.

It varies by jurisdiction. TFA says,

> Ng’s quote itself suggests he doesn’t understand crosswalk laws. Every intersection is technically an unmarked crosswalk

And that's only true in some places too. Laws vary from place to place:

>> Nine states and the District of Columbia require motorists to stop when approaching a pedestrian in an uncontrolled crosswalk.*

http://www.ncsl.org/research/transportation/pedestrian-cross...

Laws can also be changed, and laws are not synonymous with norms.

Re: Self-Driving Car Makers Prepare to Blame “Jaywalkers”

#22

Post by repsilat »

jobigoud wrote: post #13
mtgx wrote: post #3

> “What we tell people is, ‘Please be lawful and please be considerate,’” Andrew Ng, a machine learning researcher whose venture fund invests in driverless startups, told Bloomberg. This is like web developers criticizing users for using their website "wrong". Unless Andrew Ng has found a way to eliminate all crime on Earth, then I sure hope the startups he's investing in don't actually count on "people being lawful"…

Jaywalking is not illegal in most places. Relying on this would severely restrict the market of autonomous cars.

Mm. Also: it seems just as easy to me for self-driving cars to have exactly the opposite effect on how we view jaywalking -- if the cars are more attentive and more careful than human drivers (or if they will be), then jaywalking could become significantly safer.

Maybe you would discourage it to keep traffic flowing, and I can see how the people writing the software want to make their own lives easier, but as their software gets better it might not be so necessary.

(Cynically, changing pedestrian norms to make the driving task more difficult could also make life better not just for pedestrians but for a company with a technology head-start like Waymo. And it might make driving yourself around more annoying too, which could be good for them.)

Re: Self-Driving Car Makers Prepare to Blame “Jaywalkers”

#23

Post by charlesism »

maxxxxx wrote: post #15

The car lobby already created "jaywalking" https://www.vox.com/2015/1/15/7551873/jaywalking-history . Let's hope we don't end up with an even more pedestrian hostile world than what we have already.

    > Let's hope we don't end up with an even more 
    > pedestrian hostile world than what we have already.
Unless there's a cultural sea change, you can bet on it worsening. If you take presentism out of the equation, what we have now - ie: most roads off limits to humans due to giant metal death machines - is insane.

https://youtu.be/8Q5Nur642BU

Re: Self-Driving Car Makers Prepare to Blame “Jaywalkers”

#24

Post by charlesism »

strathmeyer wrote: post #17
maxxxxx wrote: post #15

The car lobby already created "jaywalking" https://www.vox.com/2015/1/15/7551873/jaywalking-history . Let's hope we don't end up with an even more pedestrian hostile world than what we have already.

Part of living in a city is going to have to be to learn to not walk in front of vehicles.

That's poor consolation when a car mows down your dog... or toddler.

Re: Self-Driving Car Makers Prepare to Blame “Jaywalkers”

#25

Post by y2bd »

dixie_land wrote: post #19
strathmeyer wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of living in a city is going to have to be to learn to not walk in front of vehicles.

Having lived in NYC briefly I learned the exact opposite. Also I was taught to hold up a particular finger while crossing a redlight as a courtesy to the drivers.

I visited NYC two months ago for the first time—as someone who doesn’t drive it was incredible how pedestrian-driven the streets were. Cars would stop for me even when it was clearly their light.

Re: Self-Driving Car Makers Prepare to Blame “Jaywalkers”

#26

Post by chatmasta »

y2bd wrote: post #25
dixie_land wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having lived in NYC briefly I learned the exact opposite. Also I was taught to hold up a particular finger while crossing a redlight as a courtesy to the drivers.

I visited NYC two months ago for the first time—as someone who doesn’t drive it was incredible how pedestrian-driven the streets were. Cars would stop for me even when it was clearly their light.

Did you expect them to run you over instead?

Re: Self-Driving Car Makers Prepare to Blame “Jaywalkers”

#27

Post by chatmasta »

a3n wrote: post #7

My ignorant understanding is that pedestrians have the right-of-way, even mid-block.

Well, effectively pedestrians always have the right of way because nobody wants to hit a pedestrian with their vehicle. This is the kind of calculus that will disappear with self-driving cars IMO.

Re: Self-Driving Car Makers Prepare to Blame “Jaywalkers”

#28

Post by spindle »

orf wrote: post #18
strathmeyer wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of living in a city is going to have to be to learn to not walk in front of vehicles.

I manage just fine in Europe and cross wherever is convenient, just like everyone else (except the Germans!). The concept of jaywalking is pretty alien to most of the world.

Ditto in Australia.

Re: Self-Driving Car Makers Prepare to Blame “Jaywalkers”

#29

Post by SamReidHughes »

chatmasta wrote: post #26
y2bd wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I visited NYC two months ago for the first time—as someone who doesn’t drive it was incredible how pedestrian-driven the streets were. Cars would stop for me even when it was clearly their light.

Did you expect them to run you over instead?

That's what they'd do in suburban Philly.

Re: Self-Driving Car Makers Prepare to Blame “Jaywalkers”

#30

Post by mchahn »

jobigoud wrote: post #12
21 wrote: post #8

In many European cities it's quite common for pedestrians to pass on red (which is considered more of a warning), even in front of cop cars. I've also seen cops on foot cross the street on red. And I've seen quite a number cross the street randomly among traffic, some of them barely able to move (old, ...)

In France if there is a collision between a car and a pedestrian the car is always at fault unless it can be proved the pedestrian was committing suicide.

Interesting. When cars first appeared the public hated them and the drivers. When a person was struck down the driver was usually convicted of murder.
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