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Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

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Re: Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

#201

Post by fabizeid »

tomhoward wrote: post #120
skrebbel wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a hidden false dichotomy there: That Tesla and Space X couldn't exist / succeed without Musk working his employees and himself into a burnout. I'm not sure that that is true. The same Musk with the same employees could've perfectly well done these companies at a sane pace - maybe even without losing speed in the grand scheme of things given that less stuff would've gone wrong.

The same Musk with the same employees I think I agree with everything except that. What I'm saying is we can't have everything that's positive about Telsa, but completely discard Musk. What we _should_ hope for is for the current version of Musk to become a better version of Musk - say, one that can build a viable EV company and help bring about a global transition away from combustion-powered transport, but without…

Why does it have to be the current version of Musk to be a better version of Musk? Why can't we consider that Musk or his type was instrumental to launch Tesla but at this point a different person is better fit to grow it? Maybe skills needed to sustain a company might be different than the skills needed to launch it.

Re: Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

#202

Post by dingaling »

_bxg1 wrote: post #7

This was about what I'd gathered. He's been reckless and made some huge errors in judgement over the past year, but despite it all I hope he succeeds. I don't think he's a hero or a saint like some people do, but his endeavors are having a very real and tangible positive effect on civilization. Most chiefly, as bad as the climate change situation looks right now, it would be so much worse without the insane amount of…

I'd argue that it was mass-production hybrids in the late 90s that moved us towards the renewables-based future. People could buy them without fear of running out of charge, yet they gamified energy-effiency for drivers who had never really considered that beyond the price of petrol at the pump.

Without hybrids having shouldered the door open, I doubt that pure EVs would have fared much better than in previous decades.

Do remember that Tesla was founded to build hybrids.

Re: Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

#203

Post by Fifer82 »

oblio wrote: post #161
khamoud wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think so. I think it’s pretty naive to think some people exist without personality flaws. Everything people do is out of some sort of greed. Some of it results in good deeds others not so much. You volunteer or donate to charity because it makes you feel good, boosts your ego, and/or inflates your sense of self worth but you ARE being helpful in the grand scheme of things.

I know someone who is genuinely altruistic. She does things for other people cause she enjoys helping other people. If you're consistently doing good for reasons which are in no way indistinguishable for pure goodness, to me it's the same. Call it "boosting your ego" or "inflating your sense of self worth". Some people just feel good knowing they've helped other people. I don't see how these people can be considered…

Say the same person is having Lamb after she finishes an exhausting 12 hour shift helping people be safe. She tweets "Off home for some tasty lamb after a hard day!". Within 5 minutes, someone is going to say she is a 'pos' for eating baby animals!

Re: Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

#204

Post by e40 »

tomhoward wrote: post #37

But, he added, “if you have anyone who can do a better job, please let me know. They can have the job. Is there someone who can do the job better? They can have the reins right now.” I think this hits at the crux of the issue around the performance/behaviour of Musk and other leaders of hugely ambitious companies. And I think it highlights the importance of thinking about what kinds of people it will take to lead the…

But when I see the hate and vitriol heaped on him, I'm compelled to wonder just what kind of alternative universe people are wishing for.

I think you give these people waaaaay too much credit. They have no imagination of some other future without Musk. They are people who reaction to emotion and give in to their baser instincts (to shit on something because he gives them some pleasure).

The last 3 years (in the US) has taught me a big lesson: people are dumber and meaner than I ever thought. And, to be precise on the "dumb" part, I know many very book-smart people who are just dumb, because while they have all that book smarts, they make very, very dumb life decisions.

I wish we could redefine the word "smart" to be more broad. Just because you scored really high on the SAT doesn't mean you are smart.

Re: Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

#205

Post by nostrebored »

tomp wrote: post #175
gehsty wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you can describe modern car manufacturing as sitting on its ass.... and I don't think you can describe Tesla as revolutionizing the manufacturing process... I think Tesla has revolutionized the automotive industry by making a desirable electric car, the technology they have within the car is nothing exclusive to Tesla. Other companies can build electric cars, but Tesla made the first truly desirable ele…

> by making a desirable electric car, the technology they have within the car is nothing exclusive to Tesla. Other companies can build electric cars, but Tesla made the first truly desirable electric car. This is exactly my point. Tesla didn't happen because of Musk's intelligence, or talent, or ingenuity, or genius. It happened because of Musk's drive . Before Tesla/Musk, electric cars weren't even part of the publi…

They absolutely were. The push for non-gas cars existed before Tesla. Tesla made the commitment to make them cheap (which they've arguably failed to do, especially considering that you're being taxed to fund them, regardless of if you're a consumer).

Musk is a world-class rent seeker.

Re: Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

#206

Post by cm2187 »

tomhoward wrote: post #37

But, he added, “if you have anyone who can do a better job, please let me know. They can have the job. Is there someone who can do the job better? They can have the reins right now.” I think this hits at the crux of the issue around the performance/behaviour of Musk and other leaders of hugely ambitious companies. And I think it highlights the importance of thinking about what kinds of people it will take to lead the…

But market manipulation is market manipulation. It is hard to have any sympathy for Musk on this matter, when in the same interview he appears to be obsessed with shortsellers, and at the same time pretends to have casually, without thinking about it, mentioned a buyout including a price, "on his way to the airport".

I am struggling with the idea that if you are rich and famous, if you are a tech celebrity, somehow laws shouldn't apply to you. I don't agree that he should be given a pass.

Re: Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

#207

Post by nostrebored »

askaboutit wrote: post #159
tomhoward wrote: post #37

But, he added, “if you have anyone who can do a better job, please let me know. They can have the job. Is there someone who can do the job better? They can have the reins right now.” I think this hits at the crux of the issue around the performance/behaviour of Musk and other leaders of hugely ambitious companies. And I think it highlights the importance of thinking about what kinds of people it will take to lead the…

Tinfoil hat on. Big industry hates Elon. Rockets are his now. And soon cars will be Tesla’s or at least Electric. Maybe they’ve been bashing him in order to break him. Don’t break the company. Break its leader. Just need to take a look at how tides have turned so quickly against Elon in the last year. Seems very odd. And the short sellers could quite easily be hedge funds backed with big money interests.

Other companies make affordable EVs, and without the massive amounts of rent seeking that Elon takes part in. Tides turn quickly against conmen. Do you think Tesla will buy out shares?

Re: Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

#208

Post by nostrebored »

mmsimanga wrote: post #141
tomhoward wrote: post #37

But, he added, “if you have anyone who can do a better job, please let me know. They can have the job. Is there someone who can do the job better? They can have the reins right now.” I think this hits at the crux of the issue around the performance/behaviour of Musk and other leaders of hugely ambitious companies. And I think it highlights the importance of thinking about what kinds of people it will take to lead the…

The problem with the current social media age is that it is difficult to tell how serious a problem really is. Part of the outrage is attention seeking media entities. So if you asked me what was the greater problem, Musk or the gangsters terrorizing families and murdering anyone who stands up to them (this is the reality in parts of Cape Town). I would say Musk really isn't a problem. The media and politicians don't…

... what parts of CT are you talking about

Re: Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

#209

Post by maeln »

yAnonymous wrote: post #177
sschueller wrote: post #104

It feels to me like Elon is unable or not wanting to delegate. Working 120 hours a week is not productive.

>Working 120 hours a week is not productive. My WoW character disagrees. Seriously though, if you enjoy what you're doing, doing a lot of it is fine.

If you really work 120h/weeks, it means that you are left with 48h per week for sleeping/eating/doing other things.

Unless he included those hours in the work hour, 48h in 7 days is just not sustainable, it's barely enough just for sleep.

Re: Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

#210

Post by [deleted] »

tomp wrote: post #175
gehsty wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you can describe modern car manufacturing as sitting on its ass.... and I don't think you can describe Tesla as revolutionizing the manufacturing process... I think Tesla has revolutionized the automotive industry by making a desirable electric car, the technology they have within the car is nothing exclusive to Tesla. Other companies can build electric cars, but Tesla made the first truly desirable ele…

> by making a desirable electric car, the technology they have within the car is nothing exclusive to Tesla. Other companies can build electric cars, but Tesla made the first truly desirable electric car. This is exactly my point. Tesla didn't happen because of Musk's intelligence, or talent, or ingenuity, or genius. It happened because of Musk's drive . Before Tesla/Musk, electric cars weren't even part of the publi…

[deleted]
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